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Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! (/Thread-Aleppo-now-freed-from-the-rebels) |
RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - wildcats forever - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 03:06 AM)Benton Wrote: Oh man, it will take a while to explain it. A year or so ago I spent a few days with an old friend who works for Centcom and I still felt like I needed a flow chart to understand where all the pieces fit together. Just bumping this in hopes everyone has seen it. A tremendous amount to be considered here, in such a few short paragraphs. Well done, Benton. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - Bilbo Saggins - 12-14-2016 (12-13-2016, 10:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, then why were the Americans, under the Obama administration supplying weaponry to the rebel factions? Seems to me that this is another example of a Nation that was undergoing turmoil, that did not need Western interference. We all saw how things came unglued when we got into the whole Iraq deal... Supposedly the idea was to overthrow Assad, install a new government, and then have that government turn and fight ISIS. Geographically the rebels are caught between Assad and ISIS, so funding them in a failed attempt to overthrow Assad effectively stopped both groups from going after ISIS. There are even more strange happenings going on with Turkey fighting with the YPG and other Kurdish forces that are anti-ISIS but also have a rocky relationship with Turkey. Had all of the anti-ISIS parties actually fought against their common enemy rather than fighting against each other, the conflict may have looked drastically different. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - Rotobeast - 12-14-2016 (12-13-2016, 09:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ![]() RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - BmorePat87 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 12:20 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Supposedly the idea was to overthrow Assad, install a new government, and then have that government turn and fight ISIS. Geographically the rebels are caught between Assad and ISIS, so funding them in a failed attempt to overthrow Assad effectively stopped both groups from going after ISIS. There are even more strange happenings going on with Turkey fighting with the YPG and other Kurdish forces that are anti-ISIS but also have a rocky relationship with Turkey. Had all of the anti-ISIS parties actually fought against their common enemy rather than fighting against each other, the conflict may have looked drastically different. And, of course, the rebels themselves are a mixture of groups, some allied and some opposing each other. Some are al-Qaeda linked jihadists. Others seek democratic reforms. Some are just Kurds hoping for a Kurdish state. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 01:40 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: And, of course, the rebels themselves are a mixture of groups, some allied and some opposing each other. Some are al-Qaeda linked jihadists. Others seek democratic reforms. Some are just Kurds hoping for a Kurdish state. It's no wonder why there's so many refugee's. I'd be looking to get out of dodge too, and let the idiots fight it out. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - wildcats forever - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:14 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: It's no wonder why there's so many refugee's. I'd be looking to get out of dodge too, and let the idiots fight it out. Living in that horror is almost unimaginable, and to think there are those who refuse to empathize ..... another horror in itself. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - GMDino - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:14 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: It's no wonder why there's so many refugee's. I'd be looking to get out of dodge too, and let the idiots fight it out. No. Don't you know all abled bodies males should stay and fight?!?! At least that's what I have been told... ![]() RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - bfine32 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: No. Don't you know all abled bodies males should stay and fight?!?! or those that do not want to fight should stay and provide aid to those who cannot. Of course there is a mentality that says " Screw 'em, every man for himself". RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - GMDino - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: or those that do not want to fight should stay and provide aid to those who cannot. And there's the mentality that says live to fight another day, in another way...not commit suicide by fighting a losing battle because other people will think you are less of a man for being smart enough to know you cannot win. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - Benton - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:31 PM)bfine32 Wrote: or those that do not want to fight should stay and provide aid to those who cannot. Which would be ok... if Assad and ISIS weren't both killing those who don't want to fight. Their choice is to support radical Islam, support a government indirectly supporting radical Islam, death or leaving. There's been a call for non-extremist Muslims in the Middle East to stand up against extremists. Many of the Syrian rebels were doing that... and they weren't getting much support for it. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - BmorePat87 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:14 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: It's no wonder why there's so many refugee's. I'd be looking to get out of dodge too, and let the idiots fight it out. I showed this BBC documentary 3 years ago to my government class. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x123vmj_a-history-of-syria_shortfilms It was great at the start of the Civil War but is completely outdated now that Obama and Hillary created ISIS. Syria is just one of those post WWI states created by Europe that lumped so many different groups together, so it's no wonder that there are so many sides and so many who are willing to give up trying to fix Syria and just want to live elsewhere. The French did a decent job running it as a mandate, allowing groups to exist in their own region, but after WWII, it was just one big state. Then one of the smallest and more persecuted groups, the Alawites, rose to power after being influential in the French army and the Alawite Assad family took over. You have a minority once considered to be simple mountain people controlling this whole region. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - BmorePat87 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:56 PM)Benton Wrote: There's been a call for non-extremist Muslims in the Middle East to stand up against extremists. Many of the Syrian rebels were doing that... and they weren't getting much support for it. Yea, those supporting a secular government that promoted women's rights and democracy either were beheaded by ISIS or bombed by Putin. One of my best friend's parents are from Syria. It sucks because any of his cousins who didn't leave are stuck there dealing with this shit. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 12:20 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Supposedly the idea was to overthrow Assad, install a new government, and then have that government turn and fight ISIS. Geographically the rebels are caught between Assad and ISIS, so funding them in a failed attempt to overthrow Assad effectively stopped both groups from going after ISIS. There are even more strange happenings going on with Turkey fighting with the YPG and other Kurdish forces that are anti-ISIS but also have a rocky relationship with Turkey. Had all of the anti-ISIS parties actually fought against their common enemy rather than fighting against each other, the conflict may have looked drastically different. It's a civil war. The rebels are trying to overthrow Assad. At least some of the Syrian rebels are fighting ISIS. ISIS is fighting Iraq, the Kurds, the Syrian Rebels, and anyone else who would interfere with their Sunni caliphate. Combating Assad and ISIS is why the US is supporting some of the Syrian rebel groups. We also support the Kurds to fight ISIS. The Kurds are fighting the Turks who are our NATO allies. Assad tolerates ISIS to a degree because they are combating the rebels which hope to over throw him. Iran is supporting ISIS, Assad, and the anti-Sunni Iraqi government to increase their influence in the region. Russia is supporting Assad so it doesn't create a post -Assad power vacuum ala post-Saddam Iraq for their interest in the region. Saudi Arabia has supported the rebels and ISIS to overthrow Assad and decrease Iran's influence. We support Saudi Arabia which means we are indirectly supporting ISIS which we are simultaneously trying to destroy in a Sunni-Shia proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. It sounds confusing, but it isn't even that simple. It's one of the great blunders. I didn't even mention Isreal. LOL RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 12-14-2016 Sunset, think of the Syrian Civil War as similar to our own. Assad is the Union. The Syrian rebels are the Rebel South. ISIS is the militant Jayhawkers operating outside of the Law, but with the Law's tacit approval, who killed Josey Wales' family which just started another cycle of bloodshed. Any Aleppo refugees would just be a drop in the bucket. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - Mike M (the other one) - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: And there's the mentality that says live to fight another day, in another way...not commit suicide by fighting a losing battle because other people will think you are less of a man for being smart enough to know you cannot win. And leave your wife and children behind, that's showing them! RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - GMDino - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 03:26 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And leave your wife and children behind, that's showing them! Well, if they're dead. Quite a few came with them. But hey..."Christian Values" and all. ![]() RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:21 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Living in that horror is almost unimaginable, and to think there are those who refuse to empathize ..... another horror in itself.Yea it's hard for many to imagine having to live in that nightmare. And you're right the lack of empathy is a horror in itself. I feel the same way about illegal immigrants fleeing a crushing poverty that you or I couldn't possibly fathom. But each their own. (12-14-2016, 02:22 PM)GMDino Wrote: No. Don't you know all abled bodies males should stay and fight?!?! Sarcasm noted. ![]() RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 03:02 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I showed this BBC documentary 3 years ago to my government class. I'm aware of the history of the region, but yea I wish a lot of people understood the information you've posted. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - bfine32 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: And there's the mentality that says live to fight another day, in another way...not commit suicide by fighting a losing battle because other people will think you are less of a man for being smart enough to know you cannot win. I guess "smart" is one word that could describe someone who would abandon their country and those too sick and/or old to seek refuge. Lots of smart guys jumped in front of women, elderly, and children on the Titanic; but they lived to "fight" another day. RE: Aleppo now freed from the rebels! - bfine32 - 12-14-2016 (12-14-2016, 02:56 PM)Benton Wrote: Which would be ok... if Assad and ISIS weren't both killing those who don't want to fight. Well I suppose if it were easy everyone would do it. |