(10-27-2020, 03:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What about them seems "left-leaning" to you?

Quote:Their main issues seem to be gun rights as part of an Originalism interpretation of the Constitution.  Their beliefs are libertarian and they are strongly anti-government.  Everything about their beliefs seem as far right as you can get.  Even the ones who trend toward anarchist are right-wing anarcho-capitalists instead of left-wing anarchists.

(10-27-2020, 03:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Force was justified, but many people will question why he was not tazed instead of shot to death.

Quote:White people can't understand the perception of minorities because white people have not lived their lives under the threat of racist profiling by the police.  When police are viewed as "unjust" because they have discriminated against people based on their race then minorities are always going to question their motives in situations where white people would not.

Quote:Would these police have tazed a white man instead of shooting him to death.  I don't know.

Quote:But I can see why minorities suspect that they would not have.  They know that police treat minorities differently than white people based on their race.  And that perception was not created by the media.  It was created by the actions of law enforcement over the years.

(10-27-2020, 03:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Yes, and those people are called idiots.



I've worked with almost nothing but black and Hispanic people my entire professional life.  I've been told by two separate black people (one of them borderline militant) that I was an honorary black person.  So while I certainly can't understand the lived experience of a black or Hispanic person I am certainly well informed enough to form a highly educated opinion.  You also talk about "minorities" as if they are a monolith.  I can tell you that as many, if not more, black people support the police than don't, especially as they are more frequently the victims of crime.  They just don't go out and burn things down, loot or otherwise do things to earn the media's attention.


 
I do.  The answer is hell no.


I can too, because it's the bullshit narrative they've been fed from the media and the Democratic party, who is willing to support mass civil unrest if it gets them more votes.  Again, you have your opinion, which is fine, it's just founded in wishful thinking.  As I said before, if you allowed for the possibility that I am correct you'd be implicating yourself, which I can understand would be less than palatable.

(10-27-2020, 03:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I can tell you that as many, if not more, black people support the police than don't, especially as they are more frequently the victims of crime.  They just don't go out and burn things down, loot or otherwise do things to earn the media's attention.

(10-27-2020, 03:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I do.  The answer is hell no.

(10-27-2020, 03:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I can too, because it's the bullshit narrative they've been fed from the media and the Democratic party, who is willing to support mass civil unrest if it gets them more votes.  Again, you have your opinion, which is fine, it's just founded in wishful thinking.  As I said before, if you allowed for the possibility that I am correct you'd be implicating yourself, which I can understand would be less than palatable.

(10-27-2020, 05:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why not use a taser on a person with a knife instead of just killing him with a gun.  I thought the whole purpose of tasers was to use when force was necessary but avoiding killing people when possible.

(10-27-2020, 05:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know how you define "support", but your anecdotal evidence regarding the people you work with proves nothing.  This is a common  theme with you.  You ignore every scientific study I post and instead cite "my black friends".  But a 2019 Pew study found that 59% of black men claim they have been unfairly stopped by police due to their race.  A 2017 study by NPR found that 60% of African Americans say that they or their family members have been stopped or treated unfairly by police due to their race.

You also act like all black/minority officers agree with you when that is nto true at all

Quote:https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-police-see-issues-of-race-and-policing/

Quote:black officers tend to have somewhat different views from white officers.7 For example, 69 percent of black officers said the protests against policing tactics reflected some genuine desire to hold the police accountable, compared with just 27 percent of white officers. And a majority of black officers (57 percent) said that the deadly encounters between black people and the police were part of a broader pattern — a view shared by only 27 percent of white officers. 

Most black officers — 69 percent — thought that America needed to make more changes for black Americans to have equal rights, putting the black officers fairly close to black Americans overall (84 percent per the Pew poll). White officers (6 percent) were much less likely to hold this view. According to LeCount’s research, the views of black officers on questions of both policing and broader racial issues in America were not much different from those of black Americans overall.

Quote:Why not use a taser on a person with a knife instead of just killing him with a gun.  I thought the whole purpose of tasers was to use when force was necessary but avoiding killing people when possible.

Quote:It is not a "bullshit narrative" when it is based on facts. It is a fact that police treat minorities differently from white people.  It is a fact that most black people know it happens.  That was not created by the media.  that was created by their experiences with racial profiling from law enforcement. 

Quote:Why should I believe your personal opinion which is not based on any facts when I have the facts here in front of me?

(10-27-2020, 05:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Actually no, that's what you did.  I said a more support the police than do not.  By definition this statement precludes a logical interpretation of "all blacks".

(10-27-2020, 05:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Again, I have no idea what you mean by "support".  All I know is that a majority consider the police to be racially biased.

(10-27-2020, 05:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: No, some LEO's do.  Your penchant for sweeping generalizations is a hindrance to your making a consistent argument.  Everyone knows it happens, but that doesn't excuse the current narrative or the behavior it has enabled.

(10-27-2020, 05:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Bel already posted a video explaining this in this very thread.  Watch it and get back to me.

(10-27-2020, 05:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Polls are not indisputable facts.  

(10-27-2020, 05:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact that tasers do not always work is no excuse for not at least trying a taser before shooting him with a gun.

He was walking and standing around for quite a while before they shot him.  They had their guns pulled for a long time before shooting him. They had plenty of chances to attempt shooting him with a taser.  If that did not work then they could have shot him.

I understand they don't always work, but that does not mean police should not try to use them before gunning a person down.

(10-27-2020, 06:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not talking about polls.  I am talking about official records of stops and arrests.

Quote: I am talking about court convictions.

Quote:I am talking about scintific studies.

Quote:There is plenty of evidence that minorities are treated differently by police and that police lie to cover for dirty cops.

Quote:These are not narratives created by the media.  These are provable facts.

(10-27-2020, 05:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The fact that tasers do not always work is no excuse for not at least trying a taser before shooting him with a gun.

He was walking and standing around for quite a while before they shot him.  They had their guns pulled for a long time before shooting him. They had plenty of chances to attempt shooting him with a taser.  If that did not work then they could have shot him.

I understand they don't always work, but that does not mean police should not try to use them before gunning a person down.

(10-27-2020, 05:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know how you define "support", but your anecdotal evidence regarding the people you work with proves nothing.  This is a common  theme with you.  You ignore every scientific study I post and instead cite "my black friends".  But a 2019 Pew study found that 59% of black men claim they have been unfairly stopped by police due to their race.  A 2017 study by NPR found that 60% of African Americans say that they or their family members have been stopped or treated unfairly by police due to their race.

You also act like all black/minority officers agree with you when that is nto true at all

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-the-police-see-issues-of-race-and-policing/

black officers tend to have somewhat different views from white officers.7 For example, 69 percent of black officers said the protests against policing tactics reflected some genuine desire to hold the police accountable, compared with just 27 percent of white officers. And a majority of black officers (57 percent) said that the deadly encounters between black people and the police were part of a broader pattern — a view shared by only 27 percent of white officers. 

Most black officers — 69 percent — thought that America needed to make more changes for black Americans to have equal rights, putting the black officers fairly close to black Americans overall (84 percent per the Pew poll). White officers (6 percent) were much less likely to hold this view. According to LeCount’s research, the views of black officers on questions of both policing and broader racial issues in America were not much different from those of black Americans overall.





Why not use a taser on a person with a knife instead of just killing him with a gun.  I thought the whole purpose of tasers was to use when force was necessary but avoiding killing people when possible.




It is not a "bullshit narrative" when it is based on facts. It is a fact that police treat minorities differently from white people.  It is a fact that most black people know it happens.  That was not created by the media.  that was created by their experiences with racial profiling from law enforcement. 

Why should I believe your personal opinion which is not based on any facts when I have the facts here in front of me?

(10-28-2020, 08:10 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Maybe it’s time to start making robocops

(10-28-2020, 08:10 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yea it’s these types that upset me. If you go at a cop waiving a knife there is a really high chance you will be shot with real bullets.

I haven’t watched but only read what happened. And if what I read was remotely accurate. There should not be any riots or looting in philly right now.

It’s not a cops job to disarm a crazy person with a deadly weapon.

I can’t remember the rule. But distance is your enemy when you have a gun and someone comes at you with a knife. As soon as that distance start shrinking your advantage starts shrinking. Your gun misfires and jams... your dead.

Maybe it’s time to start making robocops

(10-28-2020, 08:54 AM)GMDino Wrote: Looks like another metal health incident too.  Police aren't trained enough for that either.

It's a shame all the way around but to be fair the US hasn't cared about getting people help for mental health since the 80's so this kind of think will be inevitable.

Pus a black mark on the police who are only doing what they know/are trained to do and on those who loot and cause problems without understanding the larger picture.