+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+--- Thread: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics (/Thread-Election-Challenges-Protests-Conspiracy-Theories-and-Moral-Panics)
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 01:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: -I apologize, I thought you responded in the "those who voted for Trump" thread but I must have been mistaken.
No worries. I don't expect that kind of attack from you so I was a bit surprised.
Quote:-It really isn't, there were proven links to the GOP via various reports from congress over the last couple of years. Hell, the random trip there by sitting congress GOP congress members with no real reason, or maybe the Russian agent working through the NRA as a backchannel to the GOP add fuel to it? No, Putin most likely is not calling up Trump or McConnell. There have been a lot of weirdly Pro Russian moves made during this administration though that definitely appear to show a lot of favor to Putin.
It's a far cry from that to say they are in Putin's pocket. But let's say we roll with that. The evidence regarding Chinese influence on Dem politicians is a bit more extensive and damning. By the above logic anyone saying the CCP controls the Dems is on firm ground.
Quote:-Nah, my argument here is that the GOP does nothing but childishly lash out, it is their party platform for the last 4 years, and so simply throwing out the word is comical.
It's more Trump than the GOP as a whole, but point taken.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - BmorePat87 - 12-15-2020
So brave of these Republicans to acknowledge the results 6 weeks later. I can't wait for the ticker tape parade.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Au165 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 01:27 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's a far cry from that to say they are in Putin's pocket. But let's say we roll with that. The evidence regarding Chinese influence on Dem politicians is a bit more extensive and damning. By the above logic anyone saying the CCP controls the Dems is on firm ground.
It's more Trump than the GOP as a whole, but point taken.
Where is this extensive damning evidence that is more extensive? I have seen reports from congress detailing MANY intertwining of GOP politicians and Russians. Heck, Trump pulling us out of the open skys treaty does nothing for us but helps Russia. Those moves are why people believe there is some tie there, along with his sons saying they get all their financing from Russia (which all financing in Russia is tied to the Kremlin). By the way, Trump ran on "China Joe" and most adds said he was controlled by China. Whereas you can argue "far-left" and such in terms of the Russian stuff, but the most mainstream messaging from the GOP party during the election was a not so subtle accusation of China controlling Joe Biden.
As of right now, Trump is the GOP as seen by the signing on to the Texas lawsuit last week. He is actively tearing it apart and a reckoning will be coming soon of those who want to be the Trump party and those who want to be Republicans. It won't end with Donald, the kids are going to carry this thing on for decades.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 01:33 PM)Au165 Wrote: Where is this extensive damning evidence that is more extensive? I have seen reports from congress detailing MANY intertwining of GOP politicians and Russians. Heck, Trump pulling us out of the open skys treaty does nothing for us but helps Russia. Those moves are why people believe there is some tie there, along with his sons saying they get all their financing from Russia (which all financing in Russia is tied to the Kremlin). By the way, Trump ran on "China Joe" and most adds said he was controlled by China. Whereas you can argue "far-left" and such in terms of the Russian stuff, but the most mainstream messaging from the GOP party during the election was a not so subtle accusation of China controlling Joe Biden.
Have you really not heard about this?
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/530008-eric-swalwell-and-the-spy-a-lesson-in-how-china-is-undermining-us
I don't think Biden is in China's pocket, but he will absolutely be friendlier towards them than Trump was. Trump being friendlier to Russia than Obama was all many needed to put him in Putin's pocket. This is exactly why I stated originally that these types of tropes are banal, and they cut both ways.
Quote:As of right now, Trump is the GOP as seen by the signing on to the Texas lawsuit last week. He is actively tearing it apart and a reckoning will be coming soon of those who want to be the Trump party and those who want to be Republicans. It won't end with Donald, the kids are going to carry this thing on for decades.
I'm still standing by my assessment that once Trump is out Trumpism will be as well. They'll do what they have to do to maintain their hold on those voters, but that won't honestly take much given the alternative.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Au165 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 01:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Have you really not heard about this?
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/530008-eric-swalwell-and-the-spy-a-lesson-in-how-china-is-undermining-us
I don't think Biden is in China's pocket, but he will absolutely be friendlier towards them than Trump was. Trump being friendlier to Russia than Obama was all many needed to put him in Putin's pocket. This is exactly why I stated originally that these types of tropes are banal, and they cut both ways.
I'm still standing by my assessment that once Trump is out Trumpism will be as well. They'll do what they have to do to maintain their hold on those voters, but that won't honestly take much given the alternative.
I have. I am not sure one guy is considered "extensive". There is an entire senate report detailing the various members of Trump's campaign that were compromised. There was the NRA backchannel, the congressional trip to Russia, the meeting with Russian intermediaries over "adoption", Russian financing of business operations, Meetings between Trump and Putin No one else was allowed in (this doesn't happen), Administrative actions to weaken our stance against Russia, and so on. None on their own are a damning thing, but altogether it does paint a bit of a narrative of a larger issue.
Trump is running in 2024 if he is alive and I believe his VP will be one of his kids in the hope he either dies in office and passes it on to them or he can essentially make them the de facto incumbent the following election. Maybe he runs under his own party, but that will still tear the GOP apart if that occurs. The GOP needs him to go away, but I just don't see that happening, his ego won't allow it.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Big Boss - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 12:51 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: The whole GOP being controlled by Putin trope is banal. I get that it makes the far left feel better to think of their ideological opponents as traitors, it's just childish.
As is the whole "Libs being controlled by China" bullshit.
By the by, I was making a joke.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 01:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I'm still standing by my assessment that once Trump is out Trumpism will be as well. They'll do what they have to do to maintain their hold on those voters, but that won't honestly take much given the alternative.
It depends on how much Trump rails against republicans for siding with the enemy and screwing him over. If Trump keeps badmouthing republicans it may lead to him becoming a 3rd party and that'll be the death knell for his political career. He needs that R next to his name, but if he's not going to be able to win republicans aren't going to keep him around, either.
Plus, he seems to have no ability to play nice with anyone who doesn't fall in line with his extact marching orders, but by 2024 he could be all nice-nice with republicans again.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 01:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: Trump is running in 2024 if he is alive and I believe his VP will be one of his kids in the hope he either dies in office and passes it on to them or he can essentially make them the de facto incumbent the following election. Maybe he runs under his own party, but that will still tear the GOP apart if that occurs. The GOP needs him to go away, but I just don't see that happening, his ego won't allow it.
I think once Trump loses the illusion that he represents the GOP he's screwed. Sure, Trump has his supporters, but they're conditioned to believe a democrat getting elected is tantamount to handing the country over to Hitler so they're going to mostly abandon Trump in order to have the best chance of preventing the end of the world.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 01:46 PM)Au165 Wrote: I have. I am not sure one guy is considered "extensive". There is an entire senate report detailing the various members of Trump's campaign that were compromised. There was the NRA backchannel, the congressional trip to Russia, the meeting with Russian intermediaries over "adoption", Russian financing of business operations, Meetings between Trump and Putin No one else was allowed in (this doesn't happen), Administrative actions to weaken our stance against Russia, and so on. None on their own are a damning thing, but altogether it does paint a bit of a narrative of a larger issue.
I don't think there's any chance this is confined to Swallwell. Apparently the Chinese had an extensive "honeypot" operation going.
Quote:Trump is running in 2024 if he is alive and I believe his VP will be one of his kids in the hope he either dies in office and passes it on to them or he can essentially make them the de facto incumbent the following election. Maybe he runs under his own party, but that will still tear the GOP apart if that occurs. The GOP needs him to go away, but I just don't see that happening, his ego won't allow it.
I don't see it. He's kicking up a fuss so he can say for the rest of his life that he was cheated. I don't think he's going to go through all of this again.
(12-15-2020, 01:49 PM)Big Boss Wrote: As is the whole "Libs being controlled by China" bullshit.
By the by, I was making a joke.
If you were joking then I apologize for insinuating otherwise. Plenty of people say it and are absolutely not.
(12-15-2020, 01:54 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It depends on how much Trump rails against republicans for siding with the enemy and screwing him over. If Trump keeps badmouthing republicans it may lead to him becoming a 3rd party and that'll be the death knell for his political career. He needs that R next to his name, but if he's not going to be able to win republicans aren't going to keep him around, either.
Plus, he seems to have no ability to play nice with anyone who doesn't fall in line with his extact marching orders, but by 2024 he could be all nice-nice with republicans again.
Eh, it's certainly possible, I just don't see it. Trump isn't exactly a young dude, he'll be 78 in 2024. He'll get just enough consolation from claiming he was cheated to allow him to placate his own ego.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Big Boss - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 02:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: If you were joking then I apologize for insinuating otherwise. Plenty of people say it and are absolutely not.
Fair enough. No worries.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 02:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Eh, it's certainly possible, I just don't see it. Trump isn't exactly a young dude, he'll be 78 in 2024. He'll get just enough consolation from claiming he was cheated to allow him to placate his own ego.
I suppose I'll agree in the sense that his goal is probably to run in 2024 or if he's too old (not that his fanbase would give a damn if he were 100) he will anoint his son as the Trump for 2024.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Au165 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 02:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't see it. He's kicking up a fuss so he can say for the rest of his life that he was cheated. I don't think he's going to go through all of this again.
There is a belief Ivanka will move to Florida with eyes on a run for governor. Thinking is if she can become governor of Florida that gives Trump and her, or potentially just her depending on his health a spring board into 2024 presidential race.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 02:25 PM)Au165 Wrote: There is a belief Ivanka will move to Florida with eyes on a run for governor. Thinking is if she can become governor of Florida that gives Trump and her, or potentially just her depending on his health a spring board into 2024 presidential race.
I guess Obama was the left wing version of Reagan and now the Trumps are eyeing being the right-wing Kennedy family. Grand. They have it all...the scandal, the affairs, the odd skin tone, the sister who is a family embarrassment, etc.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - BmorePat87 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 02:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess Obama was the left wing version of Reagan and now the Trumps are eyeing being the right-wing Kennedy family. Grand. They have it all...the scandal, the affairs, the odd skin tone, the sister who is a family embarrassment, etc.
the Bushes got 20 years in the White House, 14 years as governors, 10 years in the Senate, 4 in the House, and a handful in various high end federal posts. Young George P. Bush has been Land Commissioner in TX for 5 years with eyes on moving up at some point.
From 1953 to 2009, there were only 6 years where a Bush wasn't holding a top federal post or running a state.
The Trumps have a ways to go to be the GOP Kennedy's.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - NATI BENGALS - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 02:25 PM)Au165 Wrote: There is a belief Ivanka will move to Florida with eyes on a run for governor. Thinking is if she can become governor of Florida that gives Trump and her, or potentially just her depending on his health a spring board into 2024 presidential race.
Wow didn’t think of that route. What did they have a meth user vs desantis last time for the gov race. With shitty ass Florida she would be the clear favorite I’m sure.
Jobs jobs jobs I wonder if she would bring any of the ivanka line child labor factories from China home to Florida?
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - GMDino - 12-15-2020
Folks I will attest that SSF did not vote for Trump.
He's not a conservative...just stuck living in a place that is way to liberal for his liking.
I have no reason to doubt either of those things as facts as he has said it over and over. And I mean that sincerely.
However he also, without evidence, says this:
(12-15-2020, 02:05 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think there's any chance this is confined to Swallwell. Apparently the Chinese had an extensive "honeypot" operation going.
...while asking you nicely to stop saying the GOP is in cahoots with Putin despite any other evidence presented. That's a strange take.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Nately120 - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 03:12 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Wow didn’t think of that route. What did they have a meth user vs desantis last time for the gov race. With shitty ass Florida she would be the clear favorite I’m sure.
Jobs jobs jobs I wonder if she would bring any of the ivanka line child labor factories from China home to Florida?
Do you think she would go the pre-emptive "the election is rigged against me!" 'route or would her ol' man do that for her? Trump has shown at least for now that saying it's rigged against you in a no-lose sort of thing. It excuses your losses and makes you wins even more impressive.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 03:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: However he also, without evidence, says this:
...while asking you nicely to stop saying the GOP is in cahoots with Putin despite any other evidence presented. That's a strange take.
Dear god. I did not say the Dems were in league with China, I merely expressed my opinion that I find it highly doubtful that Swallwell was their only target. There is evidence to support this.
https://www.axios.com/china-spy-california-politicians-9d2dfb99-f839-4e00-8bd8-59dec0daf589.html
Kindly stop being petty.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - hollodero - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 01:39 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't think Biden is in China's pocket, but he will absolutely be friendlier towards them than Trump was. Trump being friendlier to Russia than Obama was all many needed to put him in Putin's pocket. This is exactly why I stated originally that these types of tropes are banal, and they cut both ways.
Now for me, that is not quite true. Trump's uber-friendly politics towards Putin and his oligarchs were just one of many signs. There was Manafort giving private briefings, there is the whole suspicious Deutsche Bank issue, of course there was a massive influence campaign in favor of Trump in 2016, there were Trump tower meetings, there was Roger Stone's connection to Wikileaks, there was Trump lieing to the people on Putin's behalf, and the Russian foreign minister getting a secret meeting in the WH, handing out classified information included, there was a concealed Trump tower Moscow deal, there was Eric Prince backchanneling, Flynn and Sessions kind of backchanneling and lieing about it, Felix Sater backchanneling (or whatever that was), Russian infiltration of the NRA (Maria Butina, countering this Chinese spy admirably), there is a whole lot of issues (and there is more to mention than I did).
And the Chinese? They placed someone on Swalwell's team and he was not aware for some time. Apparently Hunter did business with them. I don't see much more on this side of the story, and it seems to be way less at this point. When Biden starts believing Xi over his own intelligence, I will start to see the argument made.
RE: Election Challenges, Protests, Conspiracy Theories, and Moral Panics - GMDino - 12-15-2020
(12-15-2020, 05:15 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dear god. I did not say the Dems were in league with China, I merely expressed my opinion that I find it highly doubtful that Swallwell was their only target. There is evidence to support this.
https://www.axios.com/china-spy-california-politicians-9d2dfb99-f839-4e00-8bd8-59dec0daf589.html
Kindly stop being petty.
It's not "petty" to point out that you think Trump and his buddies being in cahoots with the Russians is a silly idea but you can say you
Quote: don't think there's any chance this is confined to Swallwell.
It's simply the same thing you are accusing "the left" of doing while speaking on "consistency".