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The US just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: The US just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital (/Thread-The-US-just-recognized-Jerusalem-as-Israel-s-capital) |
RE: The US just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital - Bengalzona - 12-11-2017 (12-08-2017, 07:07 PM)Dill Wrote: YOW B-Zona! Leave it to you to make me work. You present excellent and probing questions here. I doubt I can produce adequate answers before the weekend curtain falls on PnR. But I am going to outline a few general points so you can see where I am going. We could get into "who hit who first", but I'm not sure if it is productive. The Israelis claim that their attacks are counter attacks and that settlement incursions into Israeli-held Palestinian-claimed areas are always in response to Palestinian activities. I tend to agree with that. You don't. I get that and respect your position. And it doesn't really matter how we feel about it because, ultimately, these two have to sit down and work it out. The Jordan-Palestinian relationship is a bit more complicated than I let on, I cede that. The truth is, there are many Palestinians who wanted Jordan to incorporate the West Bank into their own territory and incorporate the Palestinians into their population, thus creating a new "Transjordan" state back in the early 50's. My comments inferring 'land grab' are better directed further south, where Nasser was in charge of Egypt. Nasser took the Sinai and Gaza Strip after the '48 War. When some Palestinians wanted to organize a Palestinian state referendum back in the 50's, Nasser quashed their efforts. Nasser had bigger ideals. He championed a 'pan-Arabism' ideology which put Arab identity over national identity. Palestinians organizing their own state didn't quite fit into that ideology. And this has been a common theme throughout the efforts of the Palestinians trying to organize anything. It is not the U.S. or England or the Israelis telling that they are forbidden from taking advantage of the U,N, mandate to create their own state. It is these Arab and Muslim identity movements which cross borders in the Middle East and spring up that split the Palestinian people on courses of action. It is also existing arab countries in the region who have their own agendas. The ideal time for the Palestinians to have done something would have been between 1948 and 1967. Personally, I think the whole 'Pan-Arabism' and 'Neo-Islamist' movements are the Middle East versions "Make Arabia great again!" or "Make Islam great again!" rhetoric: idealism which is manipulated by various political entities in the region and in the world. Yes, Israeli empowerment has come through force. Israel is now the power in the region, like it or not. In fact, they are now a world power. The Palestinians aren't dealing with a country as weak as Swaziland, they are dealing with a country more like France. That's not gonna change. That said, when has Israel acquired land by force? In 1967? That was land they occupied, not acquired and added to their borders. Much of it has been turned over to other entities at this point. Yes, it is true that they have settled in these areas on the West Bank. But have they claimed those areas as part of the sovereign area of their country? I don't think they have (namely because Israel is pretty shrewd and never announces to the world that they are officially doing anything... like making nuclear weapons). RE: The US just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital - Dill - 12-12-2017 (12-11-2017, 07:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll take your opinion into consideration when I assign the moniker next time; however, the whole back and forth between Dino and SSF is because Dino will not answer a direct question that SSF has asked numerous times. He will instead respond with meme's and/or factious rebuttals instead of providing a "sincere" answer. Perhaps he really doesn't understand the question posed or perhaps he is lacking some of that integrity you mention. If someone, including SSF, does not answer a direct question, I let it go. There can be many reasons for doing that. I don't play the "integrity" card every time that happens. No one HAS to answer a direct question or continue a dialogue. I have not been following what has gone on between Dino and SSF, but if the latter is following him from thread to thread demanding answers then I don't see how Dino can be the problem. I am aware that you understand what a troll really is. You tend to argue straightforwardly on a matter or drop it. I am not up on who gets suspended and who doesn't. I don't recall seeing personal attacks (e.g., name calling) from Dino, though I know he has been suspended at least once. Lucy has been suspended frequently, but I have never seen the offending posts. He doesn't answer my posts sometimes, but he has never personally attacked me, that I am aware of. SSF is a different story. He calls me a liar, hypocrite, "ass," and a plagiarizer, and expounds upon the "disgust" he feels for those of my "ilk." He continually frames responses to my posts in unnecessarily combative asides. I don't believe he has ever been suspended for that, and I have never complained to the mods about it. Posting superficial, uninformed questions and then claiming "cowardly" people "duck" them is just another form of trolling, as SSF is currently doing on this thread. No one looking for serious engagement does that. If you answer every such question then you are effectively letting someone control your time degrade a thread, turn political discussion into personal attacks others aren't interested in following. Perhaps that is why Dino doesn't respond as SSF wants him too. RE: The US just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital - GMDino - 12-12-2017 (12-11-2017, 07:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll take your opinion into consideration when I assign the moniker next time; however, the whole back and forth between Dino and SSF is because Dino will not answer a direct question that SSF has asked numerous times. He will instead respond with meme's and/or factious rebuttals instead of providing a "sincere" answer. Perhaps he really doesn't understand the question posed or perhaps he is lacking some of that integrity you mention. Better check with "management". ![]() RE: The US just recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital - Bengalzona - 12-12-2017 The comments in this thread have gotten away from the issues of Israel, Palestinians and the U.S. and have drifted into into personal attacks, butthurt from posts of years gone by, criticism of mod unfairness, etc. As a result, I am shutting it down. The rules around here are pretty basic: focus commentary on the issues presented in the thread OP and not upon the other individuals posting in the thread or perceived mod injustice. |