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There is no proof that Jesus existed - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: There is no proof that Jesus existed (/Thread-There-is-no-proof-that-Jesus-existed) |
RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - GMDino - 07-12-2018 I suppose I don't have to do this...but it's my coffee break. ![]() (07-12-2018, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Does this sound anything like what we "know" about Evolution: How was there water with no light? (07-12-2018, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Day 2: God creates a Super Continent on our planet The predominant theory is that the Earth was rocky and THEN the water came. The exact opposite of this story. (07-12-2018, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Day 3: God divides the continents and the continents bring forth vegetation and fruit This said the waters were "gathered into one place". that would imply the supercontinent in #2. But at least they have plants before animals! (07-12-2018, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Day 4: God places our planet in a Solar System So, according to this, the only star was our Sun and then all the other stars? Except we can date the age of the stars and ours is relatively young. And didn't he create night and day in #1? (07-12-2018, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Day 5: God creates life (first fish, then foul) This is as close to "evolution" as you can even suggest. Except the story says the fish and the birds were created at the same time. Birds came about after dinosaurs (not mentioned). (07-12-2018, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Day 6: God creates mammal (first land animals, then man) Again, reptiles and mammals were around before the birds. And if god simply *poofed* man onto the earth that is the complete opposite of evolution. (07-12-2018, 03:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Day 7: Here we are and he's resting And here we are trying to apply scientific data/facts and evolutionary theories to a story in a religious book becuase that will make some people feel better about believing it. the same people who say it doesn't matter if there is proof that the story true or not because they have faith that it is. I get the problem of applying things we know to things taken asa true due to faith...I was raised Catholic. But this story has nothing, nil, to do with "evolution". Good try though. RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - Dill - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 03:23 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I believe the earliest known copy of the gospels was a portion of a copy of Mark and it was dated to around 90 A.D. Only around 20 years after the gospel of Mark was supposedly written (70 A.D.). Safe to say that texts from which the canonical gospels were derived were set down between 50-90 CE, but likely in many variations. They were handwritten and circulated amongst the faithful. The earliest text fragment we have I think is from 125--that is a fragment, not a whole text. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_106#/media/File:P106-Joh-1_29-35-POxy4445-III.jpg. We do not have any of the original texts. Luke, like all the Synoptic Gospels, is itself a compilation of other, unnamed sources (Q and L, as well as Mark). I wouldn't call Luke a "history" in the modern sense, but a story or narrative of Jesus life. A religious biography. RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - michaelsean - 07-12-2018 Who the hell gets a coffee break? RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - GMDino - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 04:33 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Who the hell gets a coffee break? When it comes to jobs and work: ![]() RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - bfine32 - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 03:51 PM)GMDino Wrote: I suppose I don't have to do this...but it's my coffee break. 1. There's water with no light in my basement 2. A theory you say. Could be a molten planet that hardened 3. except the plural seas is used to identify more than one separated by land masses 4. Actually it says lights in heaven then sun and also stars. Nothing suggesting the Sun was first. 5. Actually it states the creatures of the seas before the creatures of the air. Dinosaurs could simply be a transition from sea to air (millions of years to us; yet a blink of an eye on an infinite scale) as we know birds are living dinosaurs. 6. Yeah mammals came along as fish was evolving to bird and the creation of man most likely came through evolution (once again a blink of an eye to him). is it perfect? No. Can a correlation of general events be drawn: nothing-earth-sea creatures-man? Yes RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - GMDino - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 1. There's water with no light in my basement But there is also heat. No sun, no heat, no water. (07-12-2018, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 2. A theory you say. Could be a molten planet that hardened Then how was there water? (07-12-2018, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 3. except the plural seas is used to identify more than one separated by land masses Then God said, "Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear" But again, that's closer to something...just not evolution. (07-12-2018, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 4. Actually it says lights in heaven then sun and also stars. Nothing suggesting the Sun was first. The sun was day one. Unless there is light and dark with no sun. (07-12-2018, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 5. Actually it states the creatures of the seas before the creatures of the air. Dinosaurs could simply be a transition from sea to air (millions of years to us; yet a blink of an eye on an infinite scale) as we know birds are living dinosaurs. We *could* say anything to make a religious story fit into science. But this part of the story ignores the part of the reptiles that became the birds. And if the authors knew about dinosaurs they would have surely mentioned them, I think. (07-12-2018, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 6. Yeah mammals came along as fish was evolving to bird and the creation of man most likely came through evolution (once again a blink of an eye to him). Again, if we want to interpret it that way we can make anything fit in to the science. The actual words of the story say god created man. Period. Not that god created something that became man...eventually. I had a priest teach us one time that it was possible that god created primates and then somewhere along the god split the line to make "humans" which are more like him. I shouldn't say he "taught" us that. He talked about that during an informal Q&A while he was substitute teaching. But it stuck with me. (07-12-2018, 04:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: is it perfect? No. Can a correlation of general events be drawn: nothing-earth-sea creatures-man? Yes Sure, we can stretch the story to make it "fit". But it has little to do with "evolution". Creation of the Universe? Eh, closer. Not evolution. But then I've seen enough History channel shows to know we can fit space aliens into our history to if we look at it right. I just never got the need to MAKE it fit. It is your* belief. Stick with that. Getting approval from science because it "kinda fits" doesn't help it be more believable. If there is ever scientific proof that the creation story is true that would justify your* faith...but you* don't need the justification. *"your" and "you" the universal not necessarily you personally. RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - Devils Advocate - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 12:48 PM)Millhouse Wrote: There have been some scholars over time question the validity of what Tacitus wrote, but overall most don't consider it fraudulent. This is verifiably false. Even if some scholars believe his writings are authentic, others (the vast majority) do not, eliminating Tacitus as proof;if proof is what we seek. RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - PhilHos - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 05:31 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: This is verifiably false. Even if some scholars believe his writings are authentic, others (the vast majority) do not, eliminating Tacitus as proof;if proof is what we seek. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ Quote:Scholars generally consider Tacitus' reference to the execution of Jesusby Pontius Pilate to be both authentic, and of historical value as an independent Roman source.[5][6][7] Quote:5. Jesus and His Contemporaries: Comparative Studiesby Craig A. Evans 2001 ISBN 0-391-04118-5 page 42 RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - BengalHawk62 - 07-12-2018 Whatever happened to the Gospel of Thomas and all the other gospels that didn't make the cut into the NT? RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - Devils Advocate - 07-12-2018 The earliest mention of Jesus is the Epistles of Paul, around 50 AD (a lifetime after the death of Jesus). However, these do not mention Jesus the man, only visions. The Gospels first appear around 75 — 115 AD. All other ‘evidence’ comes after 115AD. So roughly 100 years pass until we see the ‘strongest evidence’ of the existence of Jesus. The life expectancies at the time were roughly 50 yrs. So two lifetimes pass before we see the best evidence. Think about that for a second. Lots of info can be lost over 2 lifetimes. RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - SunsetBengal - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 01:45 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yep the 12 disciples followed the sun.. Absolutely factual or not. Religion is what is to the individual following. I was raised going to church, but I don't attend regularly. Do I believe everything my religion says, heck no. Did I ever get good messages and lessons from it's teachings, absolutely. Have I ever doubted the authenticity of religion, yes. Do I work hard to tear it down, nope. Have I ever forced religion on my family, nope. Do I think that religion should be a profit making venture, nope. RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - bfine32 - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 05:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: But there is also heat. No sun, no heat, no water. Let's see if my motto of the board holds true: How was the universe and life RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - BmorePat87 - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 05:41 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Whatever happened to the Gospel of Thomas and all the other gospels that didn't make the cut into the NT? Biblical fake news RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - SunsetBengal - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 07:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let's see if my motto of the board holds true: Some music to contemplate the answer to that question with.. (caution, language) RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - treee - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 07:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Biblical fake news Make Dead Sea Scrolls Great Again RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - Beaker - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 07:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let's see if my motto of the board holds true: Both of those are still being investigated. RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - GMDino - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 07:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Let's see if my motto of the board holds true: And this is why these arguments always end up going nowhere. It starts with evolution and ends with creation. We don't know with 100% certainty how the universe or life started. We do know that evolution is real. Science is looking for answers. Religion says it has the answer and there is no need to look any further. If you believe religion why question the science? Oh, and WHICH motto? ![]() RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - GMDino - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 06:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Absolutely factual or not. Religion is what is to the individual following. I was raised going to church, but I don't attend regularly. Do I believe everything my religion says, heck no. Did I ever get good messages and lessons from it's teachings, absolutely. Have I ever doubted the authenticity of religion, yes. Do I work hard to tear it down, nope. Have I ever forced religion on my family, nope. Do I think that religion should be a profit making venture, nope. I'm almost completely with you on this. I do make fun of what I consider the absurd parts though. We just received a new pastor at our church. I went to high school with him (he's a few years older) and he could get me back more regularly. He's a good man. RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - bfine32 - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 08:33 PM)GMDino Wrote: And this is why these arguments always end up going nowhere.uuuuhhhhmmmmm......You cannot have evolution (nature/human) without creation. So all discussions of evolution should start with discussion. Who is this religion that says there is no need to look further? I welcome it; the more we learn the more elements of the bible are proven true. Who has questioned the science? THE MOTTO: "I don't know the answer, but I know you're wrong." RE: There is no proof that Jesus existed - Devils Advocate - 07-12-2018 (07-12-2018, 05:34 PM)PhilHos Wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ As you know, Wiki is a poor source. Even if Tacitus is authentic, he’s just echoing the Gospels, in which case renders his quip not an independent source & certainly no proof that Jesus existed. But Tacitus says Christos, which mean anointed one. Many, many people claimed or was accused ‘the anointed one’. He doesn’t mention Jesus. Further, he is telling you right up front that it is second hand information. Tacitus offers zero proof that Jesus existed. |