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+---- Thread: US income inequality continues to grow (/Thread-US-income-inequality-continues-to-grow)
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Beaker - 07-23-2018
(07-23-2018, 02:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The founders of our country believed in freedom and equality and economic oppression is just as wrong as political oppression. Right now people with money influence lawmakers to create laws that make them richer and make middle and lower class people poorer.
Right now large corporations make record profits for wealthy stockholders because they get by with paying their workers less than a living wage. Then taxpayers make up the difference through government assistance. So basically taxpayers are subsidizing low wages so that wealthy stock holders can get richer.
Income inequality does not equal economic oppression.
What corporation pays workers less than a living wage?
Living wage is a subjective term since individuals decide whether or not to live within their means.
What is wrong with rich people getting richer? As a lawyer, youre rich.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - bfine32 - 07-23-2018
I've asked before and got one answer about electing folks.
What do folks want the rich people to do?
They pay more than their fair share of taxes. Nobody would like a flat tax more than rich folks.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - GMDino - 07-23-2018
![[Image: 37675281_679906735727449_5871065391341502464_n.jpg]](https://s15.postimg.cc/jn13z1v0r/37675281_679906735727449_5871065391341502464_n.jpg)
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - michaelsean - 07-23-2018
(07-23-2018, 11:00 PM)GMDino Wrote:
I’m going to have to call foul on the mattress one.
And how is someone who can’t pay for a cleaning paying for a root canal?
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Benton - 07-23-2018
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: Income inequality does not equal economic oppression.
What corporation pays workers less than a living wage?
Living wage is a subjective term since individuals decide whether or not to live within their means.
What is wrong with rich people getting richer? As a lawyer, youre rich.
I'm guessing this is sarcasm? I'm sure you know about the billions taxpayers spend each year to keep WalMart's workers paid low. Walmart, a company with somewhere close to $80 billion in tax shelters. Hell, the POTUS has been sued multiple times over stiffing workers and filed multiple attempts to outsource labor to keep costs low while getting massive tax breaks.
(07-23-2018, 09:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've asked before and got one answer about electing folks.
What do folks want the rich people to do?
They pay more than their fair share of taxes. Nobody would like a flat tax more than rich folks.
Unfortunately, I think the line is irrevocably blurred between rich people — who make a lot of money and (generally) pay a lot of taxes — and big companies that make a lot of money and pay relatively no taxes. It's a mix of ignorance on the left and deception on the right.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Nately120 - 07-23-2018
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: Income inequality does not equal economic oppression.
What corporation pays workers less than a living wage?
Living wage is a subjective term since individuals decide whether or not to live within their means.
What is wrong with rich people getting richer? As a lawyer, youre rich.
Living within your means is fine, but people who don't buy houses, cars, beer, cigarettes, diamonds, or get married and have kids don't get a lot of credit, either. Every wage can be a living wage if you are immune to advertising, social pressures, and contribute the bare minimum to a capitalistic economy.
I'm not saying I have any idea what real poverty is, but I've certainly had to live in more of a modest manner than many of my contemporaries and I recall walking a lot, eating a lot of oatmeal for dinner, and walking past a lot of businesses that I never patronized because they supplied things that weren't necessary. Maybe everyone else was just flush with income to waste, but I wasn't and I wasn't spending what I didn't think I had.
The entire idea of making this into a vendetta against the rich just distracts from the notion that inflation is the main culprit, and we are all guilty of living in a country that thrives on people spending money they don't have on stuff they don't need.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Benton - 07-24-2018
(07-23-2018, 11:20 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I’m going to have to call foul on the mattress one.
And how is someone who can’t pay for a cleaning paying for a root canal?
I dunno about the mattress one, but I think the message behind the root canal is that lower income people typically cant afford the routine care stuff and end up paying more. It's a more noticeable issue with heart disease or other conditions where regular checkups and medication could avoid having a massive heart attack, possibly a cath, etc.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Nately120 - 07-24-2018
(07-24-2018, 12:02 AM)Benton Wrote: I dunno about the mattress one, but I think the message behind the root canal is that lower income people typically cant afford the routine care stuff and end up paying more. It's a more noticeable issue with heart disease or other conditions where regular checkups and medication could avoid having a massive heart attack, possibly a cath, etc.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and all that. I will say that it is a little bit of an ego-boost though when I can tell poor people to live within their means, but then also drive by a fast food joint and feel superior to all the poor people there loading up on as many calories-per-dollar that they can get. Don't even get me started on how much of a laugh I get when all those poor people get the diabetes and heart disease they were asking for!
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Beaker - 07-24-2018
(07-23-2018, 11:38 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Living within your means is fine, but people who don't buy houses, cars, beer, cigarettes, diamonds, or get married and have kids don't get a lot of credit, either. Every wage can be a living wage if you are immune to advertising, social pressures, and contribute the bare minimum to a capitalistic economy.
I'm not saying I have any idea what real poverty is, but I've certainly had to live in more of a modest manner than many of my contemporaries and I recall walking a lot, eating a lot of oatmeal for dinner, and walking past a lot of businesses that I never patronized because they supplied things that weren't necessary. Maybe everyone else was just flush with income to waste, but I wasn't and I wasn't spending what I didn't think I had.
The entire idea of making this into a vendetta against the rich just distracts from the notion that inflation is the main culprit, and we are all guilty of living in a country that thrives on people spending money they don't have on stuff they don't need.
Pretty much nailed it. When people say they aren't paid a living wage thats bs. Change your spending habits, or get a different (or additional) job. You still have freedom to change your job, which allows income mobility.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - michaelsean - 07-24-2018
(07-24-2018, 12:15 AM)Nately120 Wrote: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and all that. I will say that it is a little bit of an ego-boost though when I can tell poor people to live within their means, but then also drive by a fast food joint and feel superior to all the poor people there loading up on as many calories-per-dollar that they can get. Don't even get me started on how much of a laugh I get when all those poor people get the diabetes and heart disease they were asking for!
Are you calling me poor?
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - michaelsean - 07-24-2018
(07-24-2018, 12:02 AM)Benton Wrote: I dunno about the mattress one, but I think the message behind the root canal is that lower income people typically cant afford the routine care stuff and end up paying more. It's a more noticeable issue with heart disease or other conditions where regular checkups and medication could avoid having a massive heart attack, possibly a cath, etc.
I think I just don't like being expected to give credence to people I never heard of because it's been digitized, and framed nicely.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - GMDino - 07-24-2018
(07-20-2018, 04:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: Sigh...I guess the rest of us just have to "work harder".
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/19/income-inequality-continues-to-grow-in-the-united-states.html
(07-21-2018, 12:26 AM)Beaker Wrote: Why should there not be income inequality?
(07-23-2018, 02:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Because it's not FAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!
(07-23-2018, 09:52 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've asked before and got one answer about electing folks.
What do folks want the rich people to do?
They pay more than their fair share of taxes. Nobody would like a flat tax more than rich folks.
(07-24-2018, 09:49 AM)Beaker Wrote: Pretty much nailed it. When people say they aren't paid a living wage thats bs. Change your spending habits, or get a different (or additional) job. You still have freedom to change your job, which allows income mobility.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Nately120 - 07-24-2018
(07-24-2018, 09:49 AM)Beaker Wrote: Pretty much nailed it. When people say they aren't paid a living wage thats bs. Change your spending habits, or get a different (or additional) job. You still have freedom to change your job, which allows income mobility.
Yes, but it depends on what people consider living. When you work a low wage job and strive to live within your means, your real life and social progression can take a massive hit. Like I said, I ate oatmeal for dinner, relied on public transportation, and lived in a single room while I was attempting to work my way up the income ladder. I wasn't spending my 20s looking for a meaningful mate, or stimulating the local economy much, because I was paranoid about overextending my resources.
Again, it's America and I can blame myself foremost for my failures, but as much as people say they respect the concept of people living within their means, people who live within their means miss out on a lot of what our consumeristic society expects of "real people." Sure, there are some women out there who like the idea of getting a cup of coffee and walking around the park as a date, but that sort of reluctance to engage in the proverbial dance that is our spend spend spend culture that makes you look like a fringe citizen.
This is why I'm not surprised when people don't live within their means. Not having a house/car/education/family you can't pay for because you'd rather live within your means doesn't get much real-life respect. No one came up to my mother and said "Wow, I hear your son is in the city really living within his means...that's great!" so much as it was "So when is your son going to settle down, buy a house and get married and have kids? What's wrong with him?"
It's a genuine catch-22 when the same people who tell you to live within your means complain that today's youth are killing the housing market, they aren't buying diamonds, they aren't traveling or going on vacation, they aren't supporting big money-makers like tobacco or casinos, they aren't going the extra mile to buy American or buy local, and they aren't getting married and having enough kids. Sorry, I was waiting until I felt secure enough to do those things.
Ah, but I digress.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Nately120 - 07-24-2018
(07-24-2018, 09:51 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Are you calling me poor?
Shut up and eat yer Big Mac, Grimace!
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - fredtoast - 07-24-2018
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: Income inequality does not equal economic oppression.
Yes it does. Without some sort of government constraint the wealthy will use their power to control wages and prices so that all new wealth created will go to the wealthy.
This is not some theory. This has been proven by history.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - Belsnickel - 07-24-2018
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: Income inequality does not equal economic oppression.
When it gets too extreme it is. It turns a democracy into an oligarchy, which is where we are currently headed if not there already. When there is wide disparity in wealth and income and no mechanisms within the political system to guarantee an equal voice, income inequality becomes economic and political oppression. Our political system does not have those mechanisms.
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: What corporation pays workers less than a living wage?
Plenty of them.
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: Living wage is a subjective term since individuals decide whether or not to live within their means.
It's not as subjective as you would think. Studies that look at what percentage of someone's income is taken up with housing in a certain area is one way to look at this sort of thing in a more evidence driven manner. If people are having to spend more than a certain percentage of their income on housing, then we can see that there is evidence that wages may not be livable in a certain place. The judgement is subjective, but it isn't as subjective as you make it out to be.
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: What is wrong with rich people getting richer? As a lawyer, youre rich.
Not all lawyers are rich.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - fredtoast - 07-24-2018
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: What corporation pays workers less than a living wage?
Many of them. 73% of people receiving some sort of government assistance are in a working family. While corporations like McDonalds and Wal Mart are making millions for stockholders the American taxpayers are subsidizing the low wages the pay in order to make those profits.
And the trend is getting worse. From 2003 to 2013 GDP and production increased in the United States, but inflation adjusted wages were either stagnate or actually declined for the entire bottom 70% of wage earners. The country is making more money and workers are more efficient yet 70% of them either have seen no raise or an actual decline in their wages.
http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/the-high-public-cost-of-low-wages/
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: Living wage is a subjective term since individuals decide whether or not to live within their means.
I believe that if a person works full time he should be able to live a regular life and not just survive in abject poverty.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - fredtoast - 07-24-2018
(07-23-2018, 09:26 PM)Beaker Wrote: What is wrong with rich people getting richer? As a lawyer, youre rich.
There is nothing wrong with it as long as the workers making the money for them are getting their share of the increase.
What is wrong with the lower and middle class workers getting a share of the increased wealth in this country?
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - GMDino - 07-24-2018
You know what? If the low paid workers had a mechanism where they could join together and walk out...if they had that option I wonder if that would impress upon the owners how truly valuable the workers are?
That would be something.
Too bad they can't do that.
RE: US income inequality continues to grow - fredtoast - 07-24-2018
(07-24-2018, 09:49 AM)Beaker Wrote: Pretty much nailed it. When people say they aren't paid a living wage thats bs. Change your spending habits, or get a different (or additional) job. You still have freedom to change your job, which allows income mobility.
There are not enough jobs that pay a living wage for everyone to have one.
It is amazing the lengths that some people will go to stigmatize the lower and middle class. I post information that shows their wages have been stagnate or dropping while wealth has been growing and the answer to the problem is "Work more or do with less because it is ridiculous to think that the lower and middle class workers should get any share of the wealth they are creating for the owners."