(09-09-2015, 04:14 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I'm not the one that brought driver's licenses into the discussion.

Quote:I'm talking about whatever common sense gun laws people think should be passed, and how effective they may be.  

(09-09-2015, 04:48 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So?

Doesn't common sense dictate similar safety requirements for guns as for automobiles?  Doesn't common sense dictate it shouldn't be easier to get caught driving without a license than getting caught with an illegal gun.

(09-09-2015, 04:32 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So what happens when someone with an assault rifle goes on a shooting spree and all the reformed criminals aren't able to defend themselves and others with their god given right to carry a firearm?  Bah!

(09-09-2015, 04:53 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Sure, but I'm sure a lot of people drive without licenses and insurance. 

Quite the same with guns, wouldn't you presume? 

Making guns more difficult to acquire will make more people look to obtain them in some other way. 

(09-09-2015, 04:54 PM)Rotobeast Wrote: So....
Are these to back up your argument ?


http://dailycaller.com/2012/05/10/how-are-gun-rights-god-given-and-inalienable/

http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=1061

(09-09-2015, 05:34 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This is what I gather from your logic: any restrictions to control the flow of illegal weapons will only encourage an increase in illegal weapons and only with a complete lack of restrictions can we discourage and reduce illegal guns.  I believe that is a completely bass ackwards view on the subject.

I'm pretty sure you have rules for your daughter, right?  Aren't you worried by implementing rules for your daughter you are only encouraging her to circumvent your rules?  Don't you realize the only way your daughter won't break the rules is not to establish any rules?

(09-09-2015, 06:43 PM)Nately120 Wrote: They are now!  If God doesn't want me to have a rocket launcher then let him try to take it off of me!

(09-07-2015, 04:35 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: ...OR...we could set bias aside, and look at both of these cities and make the conclusion that neither heavy gun laws nor light gun laws have an effect on how violent segments of the population are going to act.  Regardless of your political agenda, gun laws (either way) don't seem to have an effect.  It's a cultural problem and a mental health problem, and has little to do with whether or not citizens can lawfully own and carry guns.

(09-07-2015, 04:53 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I'd add education and social / financial mobility to your list. Seems like the cat is already out of the bag at this point. Least we could do is give people a way out of the destitude that constricts their potential and devalues their perception of life as a whole.

(09-07-2015, 07:26 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Now you two are just trying to look at the causes of the problem and not the superficial topic the politicians want us to focus on. You're not allowed to do that.

(09-09-2015, 04:48 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So?

Doesn't common sense dictate similar safety requirements for guns as for automobiles?  Doesn't common sense dictate it shouldn't be easier to get caught driving without a license than getting caught with an illegal gun.

(09-09-2015, 05:34 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This is what I gather from your logic: any restrictions to control the flow of illegal weapons will only encourage an increase in illegal weapons and only with a complete lack of restrictions can we discourage and reduce illegal guns.  I believe that is a completely bass ackwards view on the subject.

I'm pretty sure you have rules for your daughter, right?  Aren't you worried by implementing rules for your daughter you are only encouraging her to circumvent your rules?  Don't you realize the only way your daughter won't break the rules is not to establish any rules?

(09-09-2015, 08:58 PM)Blutarsky Wrote: Common sense dictates that your analogies are ridiculous.

(09-09-2015, 09:21 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Please explain why you believe it is ridiculous that owning and operating a car is easier than a firearm.

(09-09-2015, 05:34 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: This is what I gather from your logic: any restrictions to control the flow of illegal weapons will only encourage an increase in illegal weapons and only with a complete lack of restrictions can we discourage and reduce illegal guns.  I believe that is a completely bass ackwards view on the subject.

I'm pretty sure you have rules for your daughter, right?  Aren't you worried by implementing rules for your daughter you are only encouraging her to circumvent your rules?  Don't you realize the only way your daughter won't break the rules is not to establish any rules?

(09-09-2015, 11:20 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: No, because I have a lot more control over my daughter than the government has over people in a general sense.

If somebody is hellbent on killing people, finding a vehicle to execute their madness isn't going to stop them.  To think you can is rather asinine to me.  People, largely after tragedies occur, want to do SOMETHING.  It's reactionary and that more often than not leads to stupid decisions. 

I've yet to see a "common sense" gun law presented that would make any bit of difference. 

If you want to pass something that will do nothing, fine with me. 

How'd prohibition work out?  Worked out great for bootleggers and the mafia. 

(09-09-2015, 11:33 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Your entire premise is based upon the notion that people that break rules and laws have absolutely no regard for punishment but you still think you actually have some sort of control over your daughter?  Wouldn't it be more in line with your viewpoint to say that you have no control over your daughter and you are simply lucky enough to have a daughter that isn't hell-bent on screwing up her life?

Do you really think there isn't a single person who abides by laws simply because he/she doesn't want to run afoul of the government? 

(09-09-2015, 11:39 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Crazy of me to think that somebody wishing to murder people would break the law in buying a firearm illegally. 

All these laws will do is make it harder for the decent people to buy them.  I am an honest guy.  I have nothing on my record.  I don't have any history of violence, drug or alcohol abuse, domestic violence.  Why should I have to jump through hoops and go through mental examinations and long waiting periods or whatever else is being proposed to purchase another gun?  I have plenty of guns already.  Me buying one more isn't going to change anything.

Meanwhile anyone that wants to (including me) can get guns without background checks, mental health screenings, waiting periods, or the like...and you don't think that anyone that fears not passing the above or don't want to face the inconveniences of above wouldn't use those avenues instead?

(09-09-2015, 11:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The illegal gun trade is heavily bolstered by lax gun control areas and laws that simply allow people to buy guns legally and then re-sell them at an inflated rate to those that wish to break the laws.  Where do you think illegal guns come from?  I could illegally buy a gun within the hour, but I assure you I'm going to buy it from someone who bought it legally.  That's just me though, I don't know where other people dig these things up.

(09-09-2015, 11:20 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: No, because I have a lot more control over my daughter than the government has over people in a general sense.

If somebody is hellbent on killing people, finding a vehicle to execute their madness isn't going to stop them.  To think you can is rather asinine to me.  People, largely after tragedies occur, want to do SOMETHING.  It's reactionary and that more often than not leads to stupid decisions. 

I've yet to see a "common sense" gun law presented that would make any bit of difference. 

If you want to pass something that will do nothing, fine with me. 

How'd prohibition work out?  Worked out great for bootleggers and the mafia. 

(09-10-2015, 12:00 AM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: Home burglaries, gangs, thugs, crooked cops.

Heck, there are websites that you can buy guns without a background check.  These places get away with it because of a loophole in FFLs that allow them to sell assault rifles and the like that you have to assemble yourself.  I've never purchased one in that manner because I don't trust them, nor would I ever purchase one in that manner.

I'll just simply say that I've always complied with government rules and regulations for firearms, but if the time came that it was either too big of a pain in the ass or illegal to purchase, I would go the illegal route. 

I'm a big believer in the law, but the law can't do anything to protect my family or myself until afterwards.  

(09-10-2015, 12:10 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: So again, my take away from your opinion is nothing can be done to stem the flow of illegal weapons so we shouldn't even try because if we do it will only exacerbate the problem.  Why have any rules at all since we know they are just going to be broken?

(09-10-2015, 12:12 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess I just don't understand where you are coming from.  You present a viewpoint that seems to indicate guns are essential to protect yourself and your family but also worry about laws making attaining guns too much of a hassle.  In my mind, if I value something to that extent or think it is that important I would jump through the hoops, but that's just me.

You also mention people selling assault rifles to anyone, possibly criminals or the mentally unstable, through a loophole.  So why don't we see this loophole closed and the people who do the selling given lengthy prison sentences deserved by those who arm criminals?  It's just odd that you specifically cite things that seem "wrong" but your final word is that there is no hope of actually changing anything so why bother.

It just seems the simplest reason people talk about gun control being pointless are the ones who want to sell guns to criminals (think of that untapped market) and then sell more guns to non-criminals to save them from the armed criminals they just created.  Get people to believe that gun control is absolutely pointless and then just sell everyone as many guns as possible.  Sounds like simple capitalism at work.