Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? (/Thread-Steve-King-How-did-white-supremacist-become-offensive) |
RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - fredtoast - 02-12-2019 (02-11-2019, 10:15 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Just to be clear, are you defending Omar's statements about Israel hypnotizing us or corrupting our politicians to their own ends? I don't know anything about hypnosis, but "yes" I think that AIPAC is a powerful lobby group that attempts to influence politicians to support the interests of Isreal over the best interest of the United states. How exactly is that racist? RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Dill - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:23 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Dill: You are alluding perhaps to the longstanding support for ISIS you have attributed to me? LOL careful what you wish for. How about this one from the locked down "Covington High School thread," post # 289 Enjoy your support for ISIS. Or this one, from the "Trump on Undocumented Immigrants Thread" #156, in which I refused to call ISIS "animals." A guy who DEFENDS ISIS is supporting them, right? You lied about me and you defend ISIS, along with your buddy Fred I might add. Oh right, I'm the one who defends ISIS. Seriously, isn't there a thread in which you could be condoning theologically condoned misogyny? The final comment is sarcastic. Of course YOU are not the one who defends ISIS! It's the guy you are addressing. And then you add I "could be" condoning misogyny. So what happens if I ask you for a quote in which I have stated my support for ISIS or "defended" them? You won't produce one (though you have been asked tobefore). You were just constructing a loose, willful association from my refusal to call all humans "animals." That's how you put me in the camp of ISIS, misogyny and now antisemitism. So as someone who does not shy from calling other humans animals, maybe you could move a little more slowly on the antisemitism charges, at least on this thread. When there is nothing to back such charges, they are only ad hominem, willful and rhetorically extreme efforts to smear others, and that's hardly a basis for opposing antisemitism. Accusing people in this forum of such things only guarantees the thread will move away from the topic and likely get shut down. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 10:54 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL careful what you wish for. Ahh, you're clearly not aware of the intentional use of exaggeration to make a point. As for defending them, you do in some respects, but, as you say, that is not the topic of the thread. As for labeling Omar an antisemite, I'm very comfortable with saying so as I think she has demonstrated, over a period of time, that she is exactly that. As for calling anyone on this board an antisemite, I have not done so. Consequently, please cease you, as you say distracting, hyperbole and return to the topic at hand. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 09:45 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm aware of this, but I think it should be a very strict line. The House leadership can restrict privileges, not put them on the assignments they want, whatever. But there should be a very high bar for the body to undo a democratic process wherein the people elected someone as their representative. I feel the same way about impeachment. I don't disagree with anything you're saying here. I'm just of an opinion that a rather firm, and strong, response to this type of racism, enacted in a bipartisan fashion, would be an excellent way of ramping down the rhetoric in DC. (02-12-2019, 10:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I did not see where she used the term "bribery". Oh, she actually has to use the term bribery for her to be saying Israel bribes our politicians? I suppose that's on me for forgetting who I was talking to. (02-12-2019, 10:12 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know anything about hypnosis, but "yes" I think that AIPAC is a powerful lobby group that attempts to influence politicians to support the interests of Isreal over the best interest of the United states. Saying AIPAC is a powerful lobbying group is not racist. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Belsnickel - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 11:03 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I don't disagree with anything you're saying here. I'm just of an opinion that a rather firm, and strong, response to this type of racism, enacted in a bipartisan fashion, would be an excellent way of ramping down the rhetoric in DC. I on't disagree at all. I just think that response needs to be a censure and a stripping of one or more choice roles in the body rather than expulsion. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - GMDino - 02-12-2019 Since we're on the topic https://theintercept.com/2019/02/11/ilhan-omar-israel-lobby-documentary/?fbclid=IwAR1FmStV78qwXmvs7xL7l_dtnOL9DOsDxLLxHWhyhyg5ua7Fd4_qYpAs3sU Quote:The debate over the influence of pro-Israel groups could be informed by an investigation by Al Jazeera, in which an undercover reporter infiltrated The Israel Project, a Washington-based group, and secretly recorded conversations about political strategy and influence over a six-month period in 2016. That investigation, however, was never aired by the network — suppressed by pressure from the pro-Israel lobby. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - fredtoast - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 11:03 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Oh, she actually has to use the term bribery for her to be saying Israel bribes our politicians? I suppose that's on me for forgetting who I was talking to. Just tell me exactly how you knew she meant "bribery" instead of "lobbying". That is all I need. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 11:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just tell me exactly how you knew she meant "bribery" instead of "lobbying". That is all I need. It's all about the Benjamins, Fred. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - fredtoast - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's all about the Benjamins, Fred. Exactly. That is how lobbyist work. So where is the reference to "bribery"? RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Exactly. That is how lobbyist work. I think we're done here. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - fredtoast - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:09 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I think we're done here. You certainly are. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - BmorePat87 - 02-12-2019 Essentially what it comes down to is that you are not able to criticize political spending from pro-Israel groups because of centuries old antisemitic tropes. It's safe to say the Jews have had it way worse than the rest of us over that time period. I'm not going to argue with it. That's just a reality and I want to note that her particular comment under fire was not yet said when I posted this story on Friday. I think she should be able to make policy remarks and criticism on Israel without it being characterized as antisemitic. I do not think her remarks on lobbying were antisemitic, and the criticism of outside spending is one that has frequently made the rounds with these freshmen for a number of interests, but nonetheless it is something to be aware of, especially since it is used extensively by antisemitics. Better articulating her thoughts and not giving off the cuff remarks via twitter is a good start. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:15 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Essentially what it comes down to is that you are not able to criticize political spending from pro-Israel groups because of centuries old antisemitic tropes. It's safe to say the Jews have had it way worse than the rest of us over that time period. I'm not going to argue with it. Also, it helps to not have a history of making these types of remarks. Additionally, it helps not to double down when you're making your "apology". RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Dill - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 11:00 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Ahh, you're clearly not aware of the intentional use of exaggeration to make a point. As for defending them, you do in some respects, but, as you say, that is not the topic of the thread. As for labeling Omar an antisemite, I'm very comfortable with saying so as I think she has demonstrated, over a period of time, that she is exactly that. As for calling anyone on this board an antisemite, I have not done so. Consequently, please cease you, as you say distracting, hyperbole and return to the topic at hand. So you DID say I support ISIS, but it's ok, because I DO defend ISIS "in some respects"? If I point out the rather vicious ad hominem here (ignoring for a moment the self contradiction), then I must not be aware of "the intentional use of exaggeration." So it's all really just a deficiency on my part if I take offense to being called an ISIS supporter. (Trump, by the way, is very aware of your "intentional use of exaggeration." He calls it "truthful hyperbole" and it muddies public discourse like no other tactic, in part by "normalizing" ad hominem attacks and in part by fuzzing the boundary between truth and fiction.) Then after defending your ad hominem "hyperbole," comes the reversal of charges; now you say I should "cease" hyperbole--without establishing that I have used any, or explaining why you get to "exaggerate" and I don't. Which leads back to the thread topic: Could Omar also be making use of "intentional use of exaggeration" to make a point? If so, she doesn't get a pass from you. Deploying double standards--a license to exaggerate for you but not your opponents--is no way to oppose antisemitism or to contribute to any positive discussion of the phenomenon. Close with a question. (02-12-2019, 11:00 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: As for labeling Omar an antisemite, I'm very comfortable with saying so as I think she has demonstrated, over a period of time, that she is exactly that. As for calling anyone on this board an antisemite, I have not done so. Consequently, please cease you, as you say distracting, hyperbole and return to the topic at hand. If you say you are "comfortable labeling Omar an antisemite," and tell me that "Based on your posting history you probably agree with everything they've [she has] said," would not that be calling me, someone on this board, "probably" an antisemite? If Omar is an antisemite, how could I probably agree with "everything she says" and NOT probably be one myself? RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:26 PM)Dill Wrote: So you DID say I support ISIS, but it's ok, because I DO defend ISIS "in some respects"? If I point out the rather vicious ad hominem here (ignoring for a moment the self contradiction), then I must not be aware of "the intentional use of exaggeration." So it's all really just a deficiency on my part if I take offense to being called an ISIS supporter. It's all about the Benjamins. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Dill - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:23 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: First of all, Vox as source? Netflix? Secondly, it is their support for BDS that has raised all this dust, precisely because Rubio is sponsoring a section in a bill which would punish people and corporations for exercising their free speech in a boycott of Israel. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:35 PM)Dill Wrote: Netflix? Actually I think what's raised all the dust is the antisemitic tropes Omar deals in. Interesting that her defense in both instances was along the lines of, "I didn't know that was offensive". We agree on the Rubio bill, the government should not be in the business of dictating the political expression of individuals or corporations. Here's the problem the BDS supporters are going to have though; a not insignificant number of people on board with you are doing so because they are antisemetic. As I've been told many times on this board, if a racist agrees with any of your policies that makes the policy racist. Problematic, as they say. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Dill - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 12:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Actually I think what's raised all the dust is the antisemitic tropes Omar deals in. Interesting that her defense in both instances was along the lines of, "I didn't know that was offensive". We agree on the Rubio bill, the government should not be in the business of dictating the political expression of individuals or corporations. Here's the problem the BDS supporters are going to have though; a not insignificant number of people on board with you are doing so because they are antisemetic. As I've been told many times on this board, if a racist agrees with any of your policies that makes the policy racist. Problematic, as they say. Hmmm. I don't doubt you've been told that agreeing with a racist policy makes you a racist. How could someone say "I agree that blacks are inferior and should not be allowed to vote--but I'm not racist"? But I've never heard anyone on this board say a policy is racist for no other reason than that a racist agrees with it. Perhaps someone actually has, or perhaps you are inferring that from someone who notes how certain of Trump's policies garner support from racists. But you are adopting that definition now? And that's how you conclude "a not insignificant number" oppose the bill (as you do) because they are antisemitic? Just making sure I understand. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - Dill - 02-12-2019 (02-12-2019, 11:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: https://theintercept.com/2019/02/11/ilhan-omar-israel-lobby-documentary/?fbclid=IwAR1FmStV78qwXmvs7xL7l_dtnOL9DOsDxLLxHWhyhyg5ua7Fd4_qYpAs3sU Wait a minute. If this guy is Jewish and says pro-Israel lobbying is all about the Benjamins, then he is antisemitic? I hope that Ochs et al. eventually return calls on this to refute this, if it's not true. RE: Steve King: How did white supremacist become offensive? - BmorePat87 - 02-12-2019 Trump is calling on her to resign. |