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+---- Thread: Do we live in a Rape Culture? (/Thread-Do-we-live-in-a-Rape-Culture)
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - Bengalsrob - 05-05-2016
(05-05-2016, 12:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: From what I see the media just reports allegations. i don't remember any media claiming a person was a rapist before a conviction unless it is some op-ed piece.
The problem is that the general population sometimes treats "charges" the same ad "convictions".
The general population sometimes, the NFL ALWAYS (unless it's Ray Rice and Goodell thinks he's the only one who's seen the video) Not rape I know, but related. The real problem is people who were actually raped have more problem getting their cases handled, because they are usually ashamed, embarrassed, and often afraid to pursue their cases. Now, if a woman dresses and acts like a hooker, I think that should devalue any claim of rape, and should be a contributing factor in a case. It's altogether too easy to cry rape if things don't turn out to suit you, and I've seen that happen to a couple of people caused by one certain young lady who's related to me . That's nearly as bad as a rape victim, in this case the man is automatically looked on unfavorably by the media and society. I'm not talking about a drunken encounter, just young girl decides to say somebody raped her. I believe substantial charges should be brought against false accusers as they are actual rapists, it's way to easy to cry rape nowadays, and cases like that backlog the system where those people who were raped should receive justice swiftly.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - fredtoast - 05-05-2016
(05-05-2016, 07:19 PM)Bengalsrob Wrote: Now, if a woman dresses and acts like a hooker, I think that should devalue any claim of rape, and should be a contributing factor in a case.
Why would the way a woman dresses make any difference?
What exactly do you mean by "act like a hooker"? And why should it be legal to rape a hooker?
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - Bengalsrob - 05-05-2016
(05-05-2016, 07:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why would the way a woman dresses make any difference?
What exactly do you mean by "act like a hooker"? And why should it be legal to rape a hooker?
You really don't get out much do you? Geez, you can even spot what I'm talking about in any courtroom, even traffic court,where women don't respect the court any more than they respect themselves, if you look around you will spot them; you do go into courtrooms do you not? You're talking about actual rape, I'm talking about casual sex and women who don't respect anything, there's a huge difference.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - fredtoast - 05-05-2016
(05-05-2016, 07:40 PM)Bengalsrob Wrote: You're talking about actual rape, I'm talking about casual sex and women who don't respect anything, there's a huge difference.
Uh, No. We are both talking about rape.
(05-05-2016, 07:19 PM)Bengalsrob Wrote: Now, if a woman dresses and acts like a hooker, I think that should devalue any claim of rape,
So again, what does it mean to "dress and act like a hooker", and what does that have to do with men raping them?
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - bfine32 - 05-05-2016
(05-05-2016, 06:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I answered your question so clearly that you actually agreed with my answer
So WTF are you talking about me not answering your question?
You made a statement; I simply agreed with your statement that nobody should be given bias. You failed answer either question asked. So let's try again:
Are you saying men and women are viewed different in these cases? (Should is not an answer)
If a transman had drunken sex with a transwoman which one would (once again not should) receive the bias?
If you claim is the bias doesn't exist then your earlier posts were meaningless.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - GMDino - 05-06-2016
Do we live in a rape culture?
People, in this thread, are still saying the way a woman dresses should be a factor if she claims she was raped.
I don't care if a woman is walking down the street naked holding a sign that says I'll have sex with you if you ask. If she says no it is is rape.
And yes that would work the other way around too. And yes that would work for any fevered fantasy grouping of people that will be brought up.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - Brownshoe - 05-06-2016
No, we don't live in a rape culture. It's illegal to rape someone, and in a lot of cases even if you're an alleged rapist there will be a lot of negative consequences. The extreme minority that believes that the way someone dresses should factor in if she claims she was raped isn't proof of rape culture. There is no judge or legal system in America (or the first world for that matter) that factors that in.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - fredtoast - 05-06-2016
While I am tearing into anyone who claims the way a woman dresses should be an issue in a rape case I have to admit that one of my biggest victories ever involved thid very issue.
The case was in Grainger County which is about 99% white. I was representing an immigrant worker from south America who was charged with raping a 16-year-old mentally-challenged white girl. The facts of the case mad no sense to me. My client had a girlfriend, and he was actually living with the family of the victim who was not physiaclly attractive in any way. He had no motive to do the crime, and there was no way he could have thought he could get away with it. He was lucky that this family called the police instead of just shooting him.
when I dug into the evidence it became clear that the girl had had sex with another boy that day and was afraid she might be pregnant, so she just blamed my client. In Tennessee there are specific rules that forbid a defendant to mention what type of clothing the victim was wearing. In my case the victim was wearing thong underwear, and I wanted to show that the reason she was wearing this type of garment was that she had planned to have sex with someone.
The prosecution made a mistake in Charging my client with an "aggravated rape" based on the aggravating factor of "bodily injury". A rape with bodily injury is much more serious than simple rape, and I have no problem with that. But in this case the only "bodily injury" was an abrasion on the labia. In my opinion that is not the type of bodily injury that would justify a charge of aggravated rape. But once they introduced the evidence of bodily injury I was able to argue that the abrasion was a "thong scrub" caused by the type of underwear she was wearing. And I really beat the point to death to make sure the jury understood what she was wearing.
I am not saying that the thong underwear was what tipped the scales in my favor. There was a lot of other evidence pointing to the fact that she had had sex with someone else. But in conservative Grainger County thong underwear is a bit suggestive.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - PhilHos - 05-06-2016
(05-05-2016, 12:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The thing is that it DOES take more than just a claim of being too drunk to consent to get a rape conviction. I don't think it is as easy as you guys think.
As for both parties being too drunk to consent that would be almost impossible to prove, but you can't claim that you were too drunk to commit a rape when you have sex with a woman who does not consent. Just like you can not claim you were too drunk to get a DUI because you were too drunk to know you were driving.
I get what you're saying in the first paragraph. What we're talking about is not so much how the legal system views it, but as to how society supposedly views it. Many people clamor now that if a girl is drunk, but she says yes to sex, she still was raped even though she said yes. Now, in a court of law, I hope it would take more than that and I believe that it does, but I worry that with more and more people claiming that there's no such thing as drunken consent that the courts will follow suit.
As to your 2nd paragraph, I'm not claiming taht anyone should be allowed to use a "too drunk to commit rape" defense, however, what I am saying is that if both parties are drunk and you can't consent while drunk then according to the logic of those who claim drunk sex is rape sex, BOTH people raped each other. Now, to ME, that's ridiculous and in my opinion, if both parties agree to have sex, then neither one raped the other no matter HOW intoxicated they were. Now, if one did NOT consent regardless of reason and regardless of intoxication level and "sex" still occurred, then, yes that IS rape.
(05-05-2016, 12:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: From what I see the media just reports allegations. i don't remember any media claiming a person was a rapist before a conviction unless it is some op-ed piece.
The problem is that the general population sometimes treats "charges" the same ad "convictions".
I think the Duke lacrosse team would disagree with you. To be fair, I'm not just talking about mainstream media, but rather all forms of media including social media, etc.
(05-05-2016, 12:47 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm bad at interpreting tone in person, so on a message board it becomes even more difficult. The language and capitalization used made it seem to me like you thought that was not my position.
No problem. It happens to the best of us.
(05-05-2016, 03:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: We put more emphasis on telling girls what to do to not get raped than we do on telling boys why they should not rape and that women do not owe them sex. Is it as bad as some places? No, but that doesn't mean we don't have issues.
We also put more emphasis on telling people how to not get murdered or how to not get their shit stolen than on telling people to stop killing and stealing. So what? You think that the problem is that we don't teach people not to rape, murder, or steal? Or that we don't teach them enough?
I got news for you, there are bad people in the world. Some are brought up that way and some are born that way. And no amount of education is going to eradicate all evil in this world.
Am I saying that we should NOT educate people how not to rape, murder, steal, etc? Of course not, but we will be doing ourselves a disservice by not also teaching ourselves ways in which to lessen the possibility of being raped, murdered, or having our stuff stolen. Because you may not realize it, but we have more control over what WE do, than what other people do.
(05-05-2016, 04:18 PM)Benton Wrote: Because he's doing the act. Being drunk doesn't excuse the act.
Just because you're drunk, too doesn't mean it's ok to have sex with someone incapacitated any more than it's ok to rob a bank or sell meth.
I don't think anyone disagrees with this, but if the person is NOT incapacitated and in fact says, yes, is it still rape? If the person asking is drunk, too, I say it's not. I'm inclined to say it's not even if the person is sober, but considering that in that instance, the sober person probably got the other person boozed up just to have sex with them, so I'm not quite able to say it's NOT rape in that instance as well.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - Brownshoe - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 11:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: While I am tearing into anyone who claims the way a woman dresses should be an issue in a rape case I have to admit that one of my biggest victories ever involved thid very issue.
The case was in Grainger County which is about 99% white. I was representing an immigrant worker from south America who was charged with raping a 16-year-old mentally-challenged white girl. The facts of the case mad no sense to me. My client had a girlfriend, and he was actually living with the family of the victim who was not physiaclly attractive in any way. He had no motive to do the crime, and there was no way he could have thought he could get away with it. He was lucky that this family called the police instead of just shooting him.
when I dug into the evidence it became clear that the girl had had sex with another boy that day and was afraid she might be pregnant, so she just blamed my client. In Tennessee there are specific rules that forbid a defendant to mention what type of clothing the victim was wearing. In my case the victim was wearing thong underwear, and I wanted to show that the reason she was wearing this type of garment was that she had planned to have sex with someone.
The prosecution made a mistake in Charging my client with an "aggravated rape" based on the aggravating factor of "bodily injury". A rape with bodily injury is much more serious than simple rape, and I have no problem with that. But in this case the only "bodily injury" was an abrasion on the labia. In my opinion that is not the type of bodily injury that would justify a charge of aggravated rape. But once they introduced the evidence of bodily injury I was able to argue that the abrasion was a "thong scrub" caused by the type of underwear she was wearing. And I really beat the point to death to make sure the jury understood what she was wearing.
I am not saying that the thong underwear was what tipped the scales in my favor. There was a lot of other evidence pointing to the fact that she had had sex with someone else. But in conservative Grainger County thong underwear is a bit suggestive.
Nice story. Thanks for pointing out that there are even rules in the courts that defendants can't even talk about what kind of clothes the plaintiff was wearing.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - StLucieBengal - 05-06-2016
There is no rape culture. We have had enough education on the matter that these days it's just over the top. You almost need a written contract to ensure there is no rape allegations.
Instead of girls doing the walk of shame and that being a deterrent to their actions.... Now if there is any walk of shame moment then they can just claim rape and at least hassle a guy long enough to matter in his personal life.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - GMDino - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: There is no rape culture. We have had enough education on the matter that these days it's just over the top. You almost need a written contract to ensure there is no rape allegations.
Instead of girls doing the walk of shame and that being a deterrent to their actions.... Now if there is any walk of shame moment then they can just claim rape and at least hassle a guy long enough to matter in his personal life.
Again the simple fact that people think like this leads me to believe we do indeed have a rape culture.
Not that men feel free to rape and think they can get away with it, but that men want to complain that women have an "advantage".
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - fredtoast - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:05 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Instead of girls doing the walk of shame and that being a deterrent to their actions.
What should be done to the men that would be a deterrent to their actions?
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - StLucieBengal - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: Again the simple fact that people think like this leads me to believe we do indeed have a rape culture.
Not that men feel free to rape and think they can get away with it, but that men want to complain that women have an "advantage".
When a girl can have second thoughts about a hook up. That's a problem. Sometimes you just make a bad call on a hook up and in the morning you are ready to chew your arm off like a badger. It's not rape to hook up with the wrong person after a night of drinking
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - StLucieBengal - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What should be done to the men that would be a deterrent to their actions?
Guys have a walk of shame as well. When you wake up next to a wildabeast in the morning you are doing everything possible to slip out. Can guys start claiming rape in those cases? At least this way it's both sides Maling ridiculous claims
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - PhilHos - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:11 PM)GMDino Wrote: Again the simple fact that people think like this leads me to believe we do indeed have a rape culture.
SOME people think like this.
I guess you believe this is a racist country? Or how about a country founded on Christianity? Some people think that we do, so using your logic we do indeed live in a racist country founded on Christianity.
I guess you also believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old and that man-made global warming is both real and not real. Need I go on?
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - GMDino - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: When a girl can have second thoughts about a hook up. That's a problem. Sometimes you just make a bad call on a hook up and in the morning you are ready to chew your arm off like a badger. It's not rape to hook up with the wrong person after a night of drinking
It is if one partner said no.
But then I find people "hooking up" one night completely wrong also.
I realize I am in the minority on that.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - GMDino - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: SOME people think like this.
I guess you believe this is a racist country? Or how about a country founded on Christianity? Some people think that we do, so using your logic we do indeed live in a racist country founded on Christianity.
I guess you also believe that the Earth is only 6000 years old and that man-made global warming is both real and not real. Need I go on?
I think there are a lot of racists in this country. I think there are too many.
I think there are too many "men" who want to make excuses for rape.
How many are arguing it in this thread?
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - Brownshoe - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: It is if one partner said no.
But then I find people "hooking up" one night completely wrong also.
I realize I am in the minority on that.
You keep bringing up if someone says "no" then it's rape. Obviously no one is disagreeing with you on this point. You keep bringing that up when people are talking about a completely different scenario. It's pretty irrelevant to the conversation tbh.
People are talking about if they gave consent and then regretted it later it, and saying it was rape.
RE: Do we live in a Rape Culture? - Brownshoe - 05-06-2016
(05-06-2016, 01:38 PM)GMDino Wrote: I think there are a lot of racists in this country. I think there are too many.
I think there are too many "men" who want to make excuses for rape.
How many are arguing it in this thread?
1 racist is too many, but having racists in a country doesn't make the country racist. Don't you agree?
I don't see anyone arguing for excuses of rape. Nice strawman.