+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive)
+---- Thread: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" (/Thread-I-Would-Like-to-Talk-Civilly-About-the-Generalization-of-White-People)
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - bfine32 - 09-28-2016
(09-27-2016, 02:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When was this country founded?
(09-27-2016, 09:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who lived here before the country was founded and who lived here after it was founded?
Same people, right?
(09-28-2016, 01:34 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: You don't know?
So much for getting a question answered.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 01:45 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So much for getting a question answered.
I just thought it was interesting that you would feign ignorance, when I know you know when it was founded and I would think that you know that I do as well. We could've skipped all this and you could have just told me what you were thinking.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - bfine32 - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 01:56 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I just thought it was interesting that you would feign ignorance, when I know you know when it was founded and I would think that you know that I do as well. We could've skipped all this and you could have just told me what you were thinking.ignorant and foolish
Not sure how I "feign ignorance", simply asked a question to illustrate how it is "ignorant and foolish" to blame this country for slavery before it was a country. Can we also blame the Native Americans and Pilgrims?
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - BmorePat87 - 09-28-2016
(09-26-2016, 11:46 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: What people conveniently forget is that "white people" have been subject to slavery in the past as well. The Romans took slaves from Britannia (England).
Then later England took slaves from Ireland in mass mostly to get population to work in the West Indies farms. The Irish were the largest source of slavery in the 17th and 18th century, because the British could get them locally and for free/extremely cheap, compared to having to go to Africa and pay larger sums.
- - - - - - - - - -
All that aside, I am of Scottish/Irish/German descent and my family never owned slaves. My great-great-great Grandpa's cap-and-ball revolver and battalion flag is on loan to a Civil War museum from where he fought for the Union Army.
So I just laugh at people who put all white people generalized as slave owners and paint themselves as victims despite being many generations removed from any possible slavery. (Though not all US African-American ((huzzah PC terms rather than just saying American)) people are descendants of slavery.)
There was slavery for 80-ish years in the US. There hasn't been slavery for 150-ish years. At the risk of sounding insensitive, it's time to get over it.
Irish slavery was a myth perpetuated by a holocaust denying white supremacist in the 1990's. It existed to discredit the struggles of Black Americans and give an excuse of "well, if we got past it, you can too".
Irish (and Scottish) people were sometimes sent to the colonies as prisoners and forced to do labor like prisoners often do. They were free to live in the colonies after their sentence was up. There were also indentured servants, but these people were not slaves. Almost all freely agreed to their contracts and worked less than a decade. Once done, they were given land and food to live on and grow. More than half of those who immigrated to the colonies were indentured at some point. The condition of indentured servants was not worse than those of slaves, despite what the myth says.
Also, despite slavery ending after the Civil War, there was only a brief period of time when the rights of the vast majority of black Americans were actually enforced. After Reconstruction ended, Jim Crow laws put them down until the 1960's. Most got stuck in sharecropping, which land owners manipulated to get poor, uneducated blacks to be legally bound to work their land for their whole lives. Even after the 60's, we have had to work to end discrimination in housing and hiring.
Most black Americans are only one or two generations removed from a time when they were legally treated like 2nd class citizens and denied access to much of society. Many grew up in that.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - GMDino - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 08:48 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Irish slavery was a myth perpetuated by a holocaust denying white supremacist in the 1990's. It existed to discredit the struggles of Black Americans and give an excuse of "well, if we got past it, you can too".
Irish (and Scottish) people were sometimes sent to the colonies as prisoners and forced to do labor like prisoners often do. They were free to live in the colonies after their sentence was up. There were also indentured servants, but these people were not slaves. Almost all freely agreed to their contracts and worked less than a decade. Once done, they were given land and food to live on and grow. More than half of those who immigrated to the colonies were indentured at some point. The condition of indentured servants was not worse than those of slaves, despite what the myth says.
Also, despite slavery ending after the Civil War, there was only a brief period of time when the rights of the vast majority of black Americans were actually enforced. After Reconstruction ended, Jim Crow laws put them down until the 1960's. Most got stuck in sharecropping, which land owners manipulated to get poor, uneducated blacks to be legally bound to work their land for their whole lives. Even after the 60's, we have had to work to end discrimination in housing and hiring.
Most black Americans are only one or two generations removed from a time when they were legally treated like 2nd class citizens and denied access to much of society. Many grew up in that.
Honestly I did not know that. Searches for Irish slavery never discussed the myth of it. Very interesting.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - BmorePat87 - 09-28-2016
(09-27-2016, 01:48 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: The end of the civil war is 1865. Slavery had been a part of the country's founding which is roughly 1650. So we're talking more than 200 yrs of slavery. Then we're also talking about minorities treated as 2nd class citizens for at least another 100 yrs (1865-1965, the beginning of the civil rights movement), segregation and all that. My parents were part of that generation. That is not that long ago, there are people that are still alive that experienced a lot of that. So telling them to just "get over it" is ignorant at best, insensitive at worse.
I had a whole thought out response in which I explained why I agree with you that our cultural history extends well before the 1780's, how even if we just look at 80 years, our slavery track record is atrocious compared to other nations, and about the idea of people not so much assimilating as they were annexed into the concept of "white" as a means to perpetuated the myth of racial science and white superiority.
But twice my browser has closed in the middle of typing it.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - BmorePat87 - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 10:06 AM)GMDino Wrote: Honestly I did not know that. Searches for Irish slavery never discussed the myth of it. Very interesting.
I remember reading an interview with an Irish historian who was perplexed when he heard about "Irish slavery" being a belief in the US. Google "Irish Slavery" and most results discuss it as a myth.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - GMDino - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 10:28 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I remember reading an interview with an Irish historian who was perplexed when he heard about "Irish slavery" being a belief in the US. Google "Irish Slavery" and most results discuss it as a myth.
Just reading that now (between working).
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/04/19/how-myth-irish-slaves-became-favorite-meme-racists-online
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 02:09 AM)bfine32 Wrote: ignorant and foolish
Not sure how I "feign ignorance", simply asked a question to illustrate how it is "ignorant and foolish" to blame this country for slavery before it was a country. Can we also blame the Native Americans and Pilgrims?
Slavery was well established here long before the US was a sovereign nation and you know that. Are you trying to deny the fact that fact it existed as long as it did?
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - Bmoreblitz - 09-28-2016
Nobody tells Jewish descendants to "get over" the holocaust.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 10:26 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I had a whole thought out response in which I explained why I agree with you that our cultural history extends well before the 1780's, how even if we just look at 80 years, our slavery track record is atrocious compared to other nations, and about the idea of people not so much assimilating as they were annexed into the concept of "white" as a means to perpetuated the myth of racial science and white superiority.
But twice my browser has closed in the middle of typing it.
Thank you, and I hate when that happens. But yeah it irritates me a little when people try to minimize our nations history. I do love this country (warts and all) but I do also love history and prefer it to be accurate . As a history teacher I'm sure you can understand that.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - Bmoreblitz - 09-28-2016
The OP stated the person in the conversation grouped "all white" people. Yet the OP is just about doing the same.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - GMDino - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 11:05 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Slavery was well established here long before the US was a sovereign nation and you know that. Are you trying to deny the fact that fact it existed as long as it did?
He's trying to say "slavery in the US" only counts from the time we were a sovereign nation...because then we can say it was only 89 years of slavery "in the US".
Then we can ignore everything before and after.
See?
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - michaelsean - 09-28-2016
I know it sounds backwards, but the Jim Crow laws and all the other stuff bothers me more than slavery. Certainly slavery is worse, but I guess it's because it was almost in my lifetime, and was certainly in my parent's lifetime. It's kind of hard to grasp.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - GMDino - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 11:09 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Nobody tells Jewish descendants to "get over" the holocaust.
Oooohhhh......"some" people do.
Or that it never happened.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 11:09 AM)Bmoreblitz Wrote: Nobody tells Jewish descendants to "get over" the holocaust.
Another interesting subject. While the holocaust is a horrible chapter in our history. What are the opinions of creating a state to protect them but at the same time displacing hundreds of thousands others?
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - PhilHos - 09-28-2016
Speaking towards the topic of the OP, I love how many minorities think they can't be racist. A white person says something that is racial, let alone racist, and they're accused of racism. Meanwhile a black person can call for the murder of all white people and nobody seems to bat an eye.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - GMDino - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 11:47 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Speaking towards the topic of the OP, I love how many minorities think they can't be racist. A white person says something that is racial, let alone racist, and they're accused of racism. Meanwhile a black person can call for the murder of all white people and nobody seems to bat an eye.
People do bat an eye. But it bothers you more so you focus on it more. Happens to all of us and it's hard to get past it all the time.
As one college friend use to say "There are NO absolutes!"
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 11:47 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Speaking towards the topic of the OP, I love how many minorities think they can't be racist. A white person says something that is racial, let alone racist, and they're accused of racism. Meanwhile a black person can call for the murder of all white people and nobody seems to bat an eye.
I'm literally wandering who you are referring to. I don't think that just because one belongs to a minority group excludes them from being a racist.
RE: I Would Like to Talk (Civilly) About the Generalization of "White People" - PhilHos - 09-28-2016
(09-28-2016, 11:53 AM)GMDino Wrote: People do bat an eye. But it bothers you more so you focus on it more. Happens to all of us and it's hard to get past it all the time.
As one college friend use to say "There are NO absolutes!"
That's why I said "SEEMS" to bat an eye. Language is important, that's why I use it responsibly (except for those times that I don't).