Rubio: Life begins at conception - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Rubio: Life begins at conception (/Thread-Rubio-Life-begins-at-conception) |
RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: Why? Why would a fetus that doesn't even have brain wave activity have more rights than the woman? Oh, I don't know, maybe the same reason blacks and "more right" to freedom than whites did to owning slaves? I never realized that there was a right higher than the very fundamental right to life. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - GMDino - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:44 PM)PhilHos Wrote: It's not murder. It's self defense. Yes, I AM being serious. Bottom line: You are OK with baby murder...sometimes. You have justified it in your mind. I care about the mother and the fetus. I'm just willing to admit its not my choice and hope that the woman has been informed and is making the right decision. I have also never called anyone a baby murderer and would NOT under any circumstances. I would try to talk them out of their decision however. Just without the vitriol that passes as "caring" of the fetus. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - jakefromstatefarm - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They are not babies. They are still a part of the mothers body. It is impossible for them to live separte and apart from the mothers body. I don't care whether they are to live separate or apart from the mothers baby. If my wife were 5 months pregnant, and someone punched her in the stomach, am I supposed to take solace in that? RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - GMDino - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Oh, I don't know, maybe the same reason blacks and "more right" to freedom than whites did to owning slaves? But you admit that if the mother's life is at risk you'd rather kill her baby. Got it. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - Belsnickel - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:44 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Let me also add that abortion is known to lead to depression and suicied in women and not because someone called them a baby murderer, well, a small part of it is because of that. But the bigger reason is because they carried a life in them and that life is no longer there. Think of it like post-partum depression only worse. This is a topic that I've actually been kind of interested in. I'd like to see someone do a study on the breakdown of this in regards to how common that was for a woman that made that decision independently or one that was pressured into it. Every woman I have known that has had an abortion and has suffered depression as a result, or any regret, has been a woman that was pressured into it by family/partner/other outside influence. The women that made the decision alone have not had the same experience. Since this is purely anecdotal it's just something I feel like should be researched in some way. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not an individual human therefore it is not a baby. Yes it is, because I said so. That's why. Your turn. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - jakefromstatefarm - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:44 PM)djs7685 Wrote: No, they argue whether it's a baby or not because they truly don't believe it's a baby. You obviously believe that you know where life begins, you're the one stating that it's perfectly acceptable to kill the baby. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - Belsnickel - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:49 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Oh, I don't know, maybe the same reason blacks and "more right" to freedom than whites did to owning slaves? The white slave owner's rights were not dependent upon the liberty of the slaves being violated. They could still have other avenues to pursue their rights. The liberty of a pregnant woman is dependent upon the rights of the unborn being violated, and the right to life of the unborn is dependent on the rights of the pregnant woman being violated. There is no way around it. Different scenarios. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:36 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They are not babies. They are still a part of the mothers body. It is impossible for them to live separte and apart from the mothers body. They are NOT a part of the mother's body. Every cell of the unborn child is genetically distinct from the mother, heck there are many times the unborn baby's blood type differs from the mothers! The unborn child is not independently generated by the mother. It is possible for the unborn baby to die while the mother lives and vice versa. When an embryo is implanted in the lining of the mother's uterus, it emits a chemical which weakens the mother's immune system so as not to be rejected. Need I go on? Or will you accept that SCIENCE says the unborn child is NOT a part of the mother's body. Yes, it is dependent upon the mother for basic functions for a time, but even after born, a child is still dependent on someone else for slightly less basic functions like feeding and clothing and shelter. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - djs7685 - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:52 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: You obviously believe that you know where life begins, you're the one stating that it's perfectly acceptable to kill the baby. Whoa, huh? So are you just trolling now? I'd love for you to provide any quote from me that advocates killing a baby. You could always start with the part in this thread where I mentioned being anti-abortion..... RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - fredtoast - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:50 PM)jakefromstatefarm Wrote: I don't care whether they are to live separate or apart from the mothers baby. I don't care that you don't care. That doesn't change any facts. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: Bottom line: You are OK with baby murder...sometimes. You have justified it in your mind. Except it's not murder. Just like if someone was killed in self- defense is not murder. It's not a justification. GMDino Wrote:I care about the mother and the fetus. I'm just willing to admit its not my choice and hope that the woman has been informed and is making the right decision. You don't care about the fetus if you're okay with a woman choosing to kill it. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - fredtoast - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:58 PM)PhilHos Wrote: They are NOT a part of the mother's body. Every cell of the unborn child is genetically distinct from the mother, heck there are many times the unborn baby's blood type differs from the mothers! The unborn child is not independently generated by the mother. It is possible for the unborn baby to die while the mother lives and vice versa. When an embryo is implanted in the lining of the mother's uterus, it emits a chemical which weakens the mother's immune system so as not to be rejected. The unborn baby can not survive without the host mother until the third trimester. That is a fact. You can not change it. Until that point the baby is not an individual that can survive outside of the mothers body. If the mother becomes brain dead they can not remove the fetus from the mother. Instead they have to keep the mothers body functioning with artificial life support. It is not an individual human until it can survive without the mothers body. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:50 PM)GMDino Wrote: But you admit that if the mother's life is at risk you'd rather kill her baby. Actually, that's not what I'd rather at all. I'd like to think that the mother shouldn't HAVE to choose. I'm just understand if it's decided the child must die in order for the mother to live. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - Belsnickel - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 01:01 PM)PhilHos Wrote: You don't care about the fetus if you're okay with a woman choosing to kill it. Not believing the government has a place in that decision and being okay with it are two very different things. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: This is a topic that I've actually been kind of interested in. I'd like to see someone do a study on the breakdown of this in regards to how common that was for a woman that made that decision independently or one that was pressured into it. Every woman I have known that has had an abortion and has suffered depression as a result, or any regret, has been a woman that was pressured into it by family/partner/other outside influence. The women that made the decision alone have not had the same experience. Since this is purely anecdotal it's just something I feel like should be researched in some way. I think you're right. Common sense would suggest that you're right. But it is something that should be studied (if it hasn't already). RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - PhilHos - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:54 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: The white slave owner's rights were not dependent upon the liberty of the slaves being violated. They could still have other avenues to pursue their rights. The liberty of a pregnant woman is dependent upon the rights of the unborn being violated, and the right to life of the unborn is dependent on the rights of the pregnant woman being violated. There is no way around it. Different scenarios. While true, my point still stands. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - jakefromstatefarm - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:58 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Whoa, huh? I assumed by your post that critiqued mine so much about legalization was an indication that you were pro-abortion. Apologies if I read that wrong. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - jakefromstatefarm - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 12:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't care that you don't care. So we're at an agreement here. Neither of us cares what the other thinks. RE: Rubio: Life begins at conception - BonnieBengal - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 01:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The unborn baby can not survive without the host mother until the third trimester. I haven't looked up any stats on babies surviving outside the womb, but if your numbers are right, then what if science gets to the point that the baby can survive outside the mother's womb? Does it suddenly become a baby in your eyes? |