(11-05-2019, 07:18 PM)Dill Wrote: Of course, Biden was publicly carrying out public policy which Obama and Congress had determined was in the national interest, and which our European allies also supported as in their interest--a move aimed at STOPPING corruption.

(11-05-2019, 08:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If Biden had NOT taken those steps then right now Hannity would be squealing about how Biden wanted the corrupt prosecutor in place to protect his corrupt son.

"The World Bank and our European allies all wanted the guy gone.  WHY NOT JOE BIDEN!?!?!?!  Why didn't he make foreign aid dependent on getting rid of that guy?  All he was doing was protecting his corrupt son!!!  The Bidens are all CROOKS!!"

(11-06-2019, 12:42 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: A more naive version of myself would think Sondland, explicitly not a Never Trumper, completely reversing course and changing his testimony against Trump would finally convince Republicans that maybe there's something here.

Luckily for me, that naive version of me is dead and buried by now.

(11-06-2019, 08:07 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Rudy just tweeted that his investigation into Ukraine was done solely to protect Trump personally...


Can’t wait for the Senate GOP to spin this one

(11-06-2019, 09:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Sometimes I think they are just trying to look so incompetent at corruption that the public doesn't believe there could be a nefarious motive involved.

(11-06-2019, 09:53 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Trump already started laying the groundwork to throw Rudy to the wolves and distance himself from him. It'll be a tough sell because of the administration now admitting there was a quid pro quo for these investigations, but that's the direction they'll probably go.

Sometimes I think they are just trying to look so incompetent at corruption that the public doesn't believe there could be a nefarious motive involved.

(11-06-2019, 11:33 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Graham implied that today. He said that the administration's policy on Ukraine was too incoherent for there to be an organized quid pro quo effort. 

(11-07-2019, 10:11 AM)GMDino Wrote: Rudy is not a good lawyer.  

The evidence, when revealed fully, will show that this present farce is as much a frame-up and hoax as Russian collusion, maybe worse, and will prove the President is innocent.

— Rudy Giuliani (@RudyGiuliani) November 6, 2019

Quote:President Donald Trump's son published on Wednesday the name of the alleged anonymous whistleblower whose complaint fired the impeachment inquiry against Trump, breaking strict conventions for protecting officials who reveal wrongdoing in government.



Amid calls by the president himself to expose the whistleblower, Donald Trump Jr. tweeted the name of a CIA analyst which has circulated online for weeks, and linked to a Breitbart news article implying the person was pro-Democrat and anti-Trump.


AFP could not independently verify the whistleblower's identity and is not publishing the name.


But the revelation by the president's son comes as the White House seeks to discredit the mounting impeachment effort in Congress against Trump, painting it as driven by politics.


"There is no Whistleblower. There is someone with an agenda against Donald Trump," the president tweeted on Monday.


Standing beside Trump at a political rally in Kentucky Monday, Republican Senator Rand Paul threatened to expose the person and demanded they testify in Congress.


"We also now know the name of the whistleblower... I say tonight to the media, do your job and print his name."
Andrew Bakaj, the whistleblower's lawyer, would not confirm or deny the reported name, but said Trump Jr. and others were endangering the person as well as the system built to protect whistleblowers.


"Identifying any name for the whistleblower will simply place that individual and their family at risk," he told AFP.
"It won't, however, relieve the president of the need to address the substantive allegations, all of which have been substantially proven to be true."

(11-07-2019, 10:25 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Well, you don't have to be a good lawyer when, prior to any actual charges, you know the jury is already going to find your client innocent no matter what because they've said they don't care about the evidence and will dismiss any charges. 

(11-07-2019, 12:23 PM)hollodero Wrote: This is really the most astonishing thing. I don't mind evidence, I don't mind testimonies, I don't mind slanderings and smears and lies, I don't care. Trump!

So, carte blanche. Sure, extort away! Do whatever you please! Carte blanche! MAGA!
What a triumph for conservatives. And for democracy.

(11-07-2019, 02:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, there are theories surrounding political cultures, and in particular three dominating ones in the US: moralistic, individualistic, and traditionalist. These cultures tend to not fall on party lines; you can have moralistic Republicans and Democrats in places where it is the dominant culture. But there has been a trend of individualism among the Republican party, which essentially is about using the government to your benefit. This individualistic culture has moved around a bit more since this theory was presented in 1966, and I think we're seeing that, here, in the GOP. This higher tolerance for using the government to one's own benefit.

(11-07-2019, 12:23 PM)hollodero Wrote: This is really the most astonishing thing. I don't mind evidence, I don't mind testimonies, I don't mind slanderings and smears and lies, I don't care. Trump!

So, carte blanche. Sure, extort away! Do whatever you please! Carte blanche! MAGA!
What a triumph for conservatives. And for democracy.

(11-07-2019, 03:28 PM)hollodero Wrote: This has to be the nicest way possible to put it.

Yes, they are all amoral, to an extent that is spooky.