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Trump admin to end separation policy - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Trump admin to end separation policy (/Thread-Trump-admin-to-end-separation-policy) |
RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - bfine32 - 06-21-2018 (06-21-2018, 08:51 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Good point, maybe we should eliminate cash bail, as well, and come up with alternative solutions for our citizens to navigate the judicial process as well. Sure, perhaps we should make that a priority over folks that enter the country illegally. Meh, you should go back and read the responses, I do. It allows to be more in tuned with the conversation. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Dill - 06-22-2018 (06-21-2018, 10:49 AM)bfine32 Wrote: This sound almost like you are suggesting the illegal immigrant deserves preferential treatment over a US citizen. They children are treated the exact same in either situation and the person that committed a crime is responsible for the situation the child is in. Speaking of accountability . . . In the modern international system, all human beings have human rights, called "universal human rights," regardless of citizenship. Under current national and international law, not to mention the supposed values of the dominant religion in the US, we cannot deflect responsibility for unnecessarily separating children from parents by framing the issue as one of "preferential treatment" to rationalize cruel handling of the undocumented children we are abusing. And people who commit misdemeanors in the US are NOT separated from their children, and when parents must go to jail, their children do not "disappear," distributed in some hidden system of child incarceration and held incommunicado from the parents. And where caretakers are forbidden to physically hug or otherwise comfort crying children. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/facing-outcry-over-family-separations-dhs-chief-says-we-will-not-apologize/2018/06/18/d1e85466-7305-11e8-9780-b1dd6a09b549_story.html?utm_term=.306ee953e40a. How is this being "humane as possible" when two months ago we were not doing this at all? Nor can we simply cast the parents as "law breakers" to exonerate the US from responsibility for inhumane treatment. In non-democratic, illiberal societies, where people have no say in determining what is law, only law breakers are ever to blame--never law makers. In contrast, in democracies, where the people ultimately decide what laws are just and how they are to be applied, the question of whether someone other that "the law breaker" is to blame for a crime is a social and legal constant. E.g., that is how the Civil Rights movement rolled back segregation--by determining that LAW MAKERS, NOT THE LAWBREAKERS, were in the wrong. Your argument also reminds me of the logic of zero tolerance, an illiberal experiment adopted by US schools in the '90s when they switched from the standard of making student punishment fit the level of offense to using the most extreme punishment--expulsion--for minor offenses, like a student bringing Tylenol to school. When people pointed out how this went against traditional conceptions of school responsibility for the well being and education of children, school boards defended the practice by "blaming the lawbreaker" (the student) rather than the extreme and unnecessary law. I also note that the black and white, authoritarian clarity attributed to immigration law and law breakers becomes considerably fuzzy when Trump defenders turn from the border to their leader, whose scofflaw behavior is daily applauded, as he blames Democrats for the effects of a policy he put into place in April. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Dill - 06-22-2018 (06-21-2018, 02:18 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: "You were doing 36mph in a 35 zone. I'm gonna need to take your kids." Either we are a nation of laws or we are not! Until the Democrats change the speeding laws, nothing can be done. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Dill - 06-22-2018 (06-21-2018, 02:24 PM)Griever Wrote: "The Left" is coaching these children to cry. Or so I heard. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Bengalzona - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 12:20 AM)Dill Wrote: "The Left" is coaching these children to cry. Or so I heard. Don't be weak and given in to the children's crying or screams of terror, brother! Stand strong for the Trump!!! ![]() RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Belsnickel - 06-22-2018 (06-21-2018, 10:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Sure, perhaps we should make that a priority over folks that enter the country illegally. Or, and I'm just spitballing here, we could do them both because there are enough people dealing with policy in this country that we should be able to do more than one thing at once. (06-21-2018, 10:26 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Meh, you should go back and read the responses, I do. It allows to be more in tuned with the conversation. Maybe I like non sequitors. ![]() RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Arturo Bandini - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 12:20 AM)Dill Wrote: "The Left" is coaching these children to cry. Or so I heard. I heard they were actors ... RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - SunsetBengal - 06-22-2018 Let's see how the nice Canadiens handle the migrant children. Perhaps we should follow their example? They do have one obvious advantage over us in the US, as they can give the children pot brownies to keep them calm from squalling. https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/canada-also-detains-migrant-children-sometimes-for-months-at-a-time/ar-AAyTmbe Quote:The holding centres, which are off limits to the public, resemble medium-security prisons. They are surrounded by razor-wire fences and surveilled by guards. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Bengalzona - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 08:14 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I heard they were actors ... Indeed. The Left will stop at nothing to embarrass the Don. They try to make it look as if this was his fault, when it clearly was Obummers fault that the president had to separate children from their parents. He HAD to do it! They shouldn't be bringing their kids here anyway. What are they thinking?!?!?! If I had my way, we'd deport them before they even get to the Wall! Obummer just let them waltz right over the border and come into America, you know. Now, we have a crisis!! I see Mexican people. They're everywhere! Sometimes they don't even know they're Mexican!! RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - PhilHos - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 09:02 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Let's see how the nice Canadiens handle the migrant children. Perhaps we should follow their example? They do have one obvious advantage over us in the US, as they can give the children pot brownies to keep them calm from squalling. Heck, as of 2016 there were still 80 prisons for kids in America! https://www.themarshallproject.org/2016/03/03/there-are-still-80-youth-prisons-in-the-u-s-here-are-five-things-to-know-about-them RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - SunsetBengal - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 11:59 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Heck, as of 2016 there were still 80 prisons for kids in America! The article speaks of States moving away from the large, prison like institutions, to smaller local facilities. My son works at one of those smaller, State owned facilities, near Cincinnati. The place has "rehabilitation center" in it's official title, but all of the "clients" are court ordered to be there, per their sentencing by the Juvenile Court in their home County. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - XenoMorph - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 11:59 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Heck, as of 2016 there were still 80 prisons for kids in America! kids commit crimes too... and shouldn't be housed with adults (some of which are in prision for violating kids) RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Bengalzona - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 09:02 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Let's see how the nice Canadiens handle the migrant children. Perhaps we should follow their example? They do have one obvious advantage over us in the US, as they can give the children pot brownies to keep them calm from squalling. Is the furor over children being detained, or over the fact that they were being detained separate from their parents when their parents were with them crossing the border? My understanding is that it is the latter. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - XenoMorph - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 12:20 AM)Dill Wrote: "The Left" is coaching these children to cry. Or so I heard. child being used as the poster child was never even separated from her mother. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Bengalzona - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 12:37 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: child being used as the poster child was never even separated from her mother. Yes. That is correct. They were detained together. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - fredtoast - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 12:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: The article speaks of States moving away from the large, prison like institutions, to smaller local facilities. My son works at one of those smaller, State owned facilities, near Cincinnati. The place has "rehabilitation center" in it's official title, but all of the "clients" are court ordered to be there, per their sentencing by the Juvenile Court in their home County. There are different levels of facilities for juveniles. I know there used to be a juvenile detention center in Lebanon that was for the hard cases. But that was many years ago. Today here in Tennessee there are a very few high security "prisons" but a lot of them are more like boarding schools. RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Bengalzona - 06-22-2018 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/06/21/trumps-zero-tolerance-border-prosecutions-led-time-served-and-10-fee/722237002/ Quote:Trump administration's 'zero tolerance' border prosecutions led to time served, $10 fees RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - bfine32 - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 08:14 AM)Arturo Bandini Wrote: I heard they were actors ... You heard correctly: ![]() RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Dill - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 12:37 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: child being used as the poster child was never even separated from her mother. How 'bout these: refugee kids separated from parents--or actors? ![]() RE: Trump admin to end separation policy - Dill - 06-22-2018 (06-22-2018, 10:20 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Indeed. The Left will stop at nothing to embarrass the Don. They try to make it look as if this was his fault, when it clearly was Obummers fault that the president had to separate children from their parents. He HAD to do it! They shouldn't be bringing their kids here anyway. What are they thinking?!?!?! If I had my way, we'd deport them before they even get to the Wall! I am thinking along those lines too. I have to ask myself--are these leftist children really crying because they are separated from their parents, or do they just hate Trump? I know what the fake news wants you to believe. |