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Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet (/Thread-Trump-struggles-with-the-basics-on-history-and-civics-in-DACA-tweet) |
RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - Griever - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 01:25 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Ivanka’s Parents did not come via chain migration. Her father is a USC and her mother was a primary applicant. my mistake, i meant Melania, her parents came over through chain migration RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - GMDino - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 04:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: So I should use Family Reunification? Apparently not based on on Matt said. Although anything would be better than something that racists prefer I suppose. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - GMDino - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 04:05 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Ahhh yes. The dog whistles everyone can hear. Someone needs to go back to the drawing board. I mean I know it's hard to believe that subgroup like racists would prefer their own language but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. (02-15-2018, 04:05 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I'm glad to be educated, but who decided it? What's the appropriate termto use until it becomes the new dog whistle. It evolved apparently. I suppose using anything that's not prefered by racists is ok. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - bfine32 - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 04:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: I mean I know it's hard to believe that subgroup like racists would prefer their own language but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Man that sucks; as I really like Doc Martens. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - michaelsean - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 04:10 PM)GMDino Wrote: I mean I know it's hard to believe that subgroup like racists would prefer their own language but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You know what a dog whistle is right? Well your metaphor falls apart due to the fact that apparently everyone can hear it. I prefer not having racists dictate our vocabulary. Do they know they have this power? If they start speaking about undocumented immigrants, do we switch back to illegal aliens? RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - Belsnickel - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 03:44 PM)michaelsean Wrote: So when the white power or whatever use this term are they using it incorrectly? I mean, I'm sure they use a lot of terms and we really shouldn't have to change our vocabulary every time they say something. It's not because of the white nationalists that I am suggesting this. The term is being used by a partisan side and tying it to a negative emotional appeal. Because of this, the term has become charged. They added an electron to the atom that is the word. (02-15-2018, 03:46 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Isn’t it time we just stopped being “triggered” by everything that we don’t agree with? Back in the day when that happened we just dealt with it and moved on.... we didn’t run to an adult and cry like a baby over someone using a word. The mental block that is put up when politically charged words are used is not a conscious thing. It happens to you, it happens to everyone. It is a psychological phenomenon that you have to actively work against to get around. This is why language choice matters. The words we use can initiate a defensive position in the person we are having a conversation with. This is why you get the reactions you do so often. You choose politically charged language and it results in a similar reaction from others. It continues into a downward spiral until one or both people involved end up in a staff initiated timeout. This also prevents any sort of actual movement on opinions. If you want to genuinely have a conversation about the merits or lack thereof of something, then choosing less charged language will help with that. Otherwise, you are doing nothing but tilting at windmills. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - GMDino - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 04:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: You know what a dog whistle is right? Well your metaphor falls apart due to the fact that apparently everyone can hear it. You know that you can't hear the dog whistle but you can see it right? They use it and then someone notices (they admit it) and you see it for what it is. Thanks. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - michaelsean - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 04:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: You know that you can't hear the dog whistle but you can see it right? Or it's a terrible metaphor and someone should come up with a new one. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - bfine32 - 02-15-2018 Back on the subject: It seems the only sticking point between the 2 plans thrown out there is restrictions on future immigrations. If "Trump's Plan" and the "Bi-Partisan Plan" both provide a pathway to citizenship for 1.8 mil dreamers then how can one be more protective of Dreamers than the other/ RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - GMDino - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 06:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Back on the subject: It seems the only sticking point between the 2 plans thrown out there is restrictions on future immigrations. If "Trump's Plan" and the "Bi-Partisan Plan" both provide a pathway to citizenship for 1.8 mil dreamers then how can one be more protective of Dreamers than the other/ Trump said he wants a bi-partisan plan...then threatens to veto it. Then his plan can get the votes. https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/15/immigration-daca-senate-412459 Quote:Senate immigration debate ends in failure RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - StLucieBengal - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 10:52 PM)GMDino Wrote: Trump said he wants a bi-partisan plan...then threatens to veto it. He goes into the mid terms with a majority of the country who support his version of immigration. Going to be a hard turn for the democrat senators running. And with some of the progressive GOP leaving we have a chance to get some tough on immigration people in there. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - bfine32 - 02-15-2018 (02-15-2018, 10:52 PM)GMDino Wrote: Trump said he wants a bi-partisan plan...then threatens to veto it. Not exactly sure why you quoted my post to share that; as it did not answer the question posed. How is one of the two plans that provide a pathway to citizenship for the same amount of dreamers protect them more than another? As I said, the only substantial difference in the 2 proposals in concerning future immigration. Yet the left (Schumer) keeps up the mantra of Trump doesn't want to protect dreamers. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - fredtoast - 02-16-2018 (02-15-2018, 06:24 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Back on the subject: It seems the only sticking point between the 2 plans thrown out there is restrictions on future immigrations. If "Trump's Plan" and the "Bi-Partisan Plan" both provide a pathway to citizenship for 1.8 mil dreamers then how can one be more protective of Dreamers than the other/ I don't think it was rejected because it was not as protective of the dreamers (although it was more protective of dreamers parents). I am pretty sure it was rejected for other reasons like the money for the wall and the changes in legal immigration. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - fredtoast - 02-16-2018 (02-15-2018, 11:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: As I said, the only substantial difference in the 2 proposals in concerning future immigration. Yet the left (Schumer) keeps up the mantra of Trump doesn't want to protect dreamers. The money for the wall is a big difference. Trump is holding the protection of the dreamers hostage. If a police officer says he will only protect you if you pay him $1000 then it is fair to say he does not want to protect you. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - BmorePat87 - 02-16-2018 (02-15-2018, 11:34 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not exactly sure why you quoted my post to share that; as it did not answer the question posed. How is one of the two plans that provide a pathway to citizenship for the same amount of dreamers protect them more than another? If he were to veto a bill identical to his but lacking border wall funding, you could make the argument that he doesn't care about them and is using them as a concession for his wall. I wouldn't claim Democrats support a wall just because they vote for a compromise bill that includes it along with protections for Dreamers. But to address your first question, how could one bill be more protective than the other if they're identical in that aspect? One couldn't be. There's no argument to make that one protects the them more than the other in this scenario. The bill itself is without motive. The motive comes in how the individual legislators vote and in the action of the executive. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - bfine32 - 02-16-2018 (02-16-2018, 12:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: The money for the wall is a big difference. Trump is holding the protection of the dreamers hostage. From what I read both bills provide funding for the wall. The current sticking issue as I read it is that Trump wants total immigration reform and the bipartisan just wants to address the dreamers. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - Belsnickel - 02-16-2018 So, to clarify, the differences between Trump's preferred bill and the bipartisan deal are that the bipartisan deal spread the money for the wall out over ten years and didn't change legal immigration systems. The bipartisan deal that could have passed both chambers had the veto threat not been levied would have provided money for border security (including the wall) and gave a path to permanent residency to "Dreamers." It's sad to me that they were unable to make this happen. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - bfine32 - 02-16-2018 (02-16-2018, 10:39 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, to clarify, the differences between Trump's preferred bill and the bipartisan deal are that the bipartisan deal spread the money for the wall out over ten years and didn't change legal immigration systems. The bipartisan deal that could have passed both chambers had the veto threat not been levied would have provided money for border security (including the wall) and gave a path to permanent residency to "Dreamers." So it seems I was reading correctly. The difference between the 2 is trump's wanted total immigration reform and the bi-partisan only wants to address the dreamers. My thoughts on this have not changed and fortunately it seems both plans are trending in that direction. I've always said if you were brought here as a minor and have proven to be a "good citizen' then you should have a pathway to citizenship; however, if you knowingly came here illegally as an adult: sorry about your luck. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - Belsnickel - 02-16-2018 (02-16-2018, 11:15 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So it seems I was reading correctly. The difference between the 2 is trump's wanted total immigration reform and the bi-partisan only wants to address the dreamers. Not quite. The bipartisan bill also addressed border security, so it focused on reducing illegal immigration as well. The big difference was the changes to legal immigration such as the diversity lottery and family-based migration. (02-16-2018, 11:15 AM)bfine32 Wrote: My thoughts on this have not changed and fortunately it seems both plans are trending in that direction. I've always said if you were brought here as a minor and have proven to be a "good citizen' then you should have a pathway to citizenship; however, if you knowingly came here illegally as an adult: sorry about your luck. Indeed. I will say that I was a big fan of the USA Act, which also failed in the Senate. It provided temporary legal status to "Dreamers" that were here when the original law was kicked around, and gave them a few years to complete one of three options to obtain permanent resident status: two years post-secondary education (to include trade schools), one term of enlistment in the military, or an employment requirement that I can't remember off the top of my head. Then, with permanent resident status, they would be treated as any other green card holder and have the whole five year thing to become a citizen. The bill also provided funding for border security, specifically to assess what would be most effective in certain areas as well. The border has a lot of variation in it and so there is no one-size-fits-all solution to the entire stretch of the border. I mean, the Sonoran Desert is a natural barrier that, while people do still cross it to get here, acts as a major deterrent. RE: Trump struggles with the basics on history and civics in DACA tweet - StLucieBengal - 02-16-2018 The ridiculous court stay on the DACA ending order that trump signed ruined he deal. They won’t work together unless they have a gun to their head. Another case of the court overreaching. They need to impeach several federal judges. DACA isn’t even constitutional yet the court defends it lol. Impeach these fools. |