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+--- Thread: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage (/Thread-Biden-Wants-15-Hour-Min-Wage)
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - BFritz21 - 01-22-2021
(01-22-2021, 05:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I don't recall arguing for a $15 minimum wage. I'm arguing that you are finding one aspect where democrats are going to hurt small businesses after 40 years of neo-con BS that you seem to eat like apple pie has put small businesses on the ropes.This is an aspect that could kill small businesses! It's not like I'm arguing about something small and insignificant because the cost of overhead will go way up without the revenue going way up, and, if the prices go up to try and make up for it, they'll get put out of business by big companies or chains that can afford it.
Given your post below, you're obviously struggling in this thread.
(01-22-2021, 05:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Can you go one post without painting yourself as some sort of victim? Geez.
How the hell was that in any way painting myself as a victim?!
Like I said, you're either grasping for straws or just posting stupid things to make it sound like you're joking because you don't have anything to debate!
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Nately120 - 01-22-2021
(01-22-2021, 05:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: This is an aspect that could kill small businesses! It's not like I'm arguing about something small and insignificant because the cost of overhead will go way up without the revenue going way up, and, if the prices go up to try and make up for it, they'll get put out of business by big companies or chains that can afford it.
Given your post below, you're obviously struggling in this thread.
How the hell was that in any way painting myself as a victim?!
Like I said, you're either grasping for straws or just posting stupid things to make it sound like you're joking because you don't have anything to debate!
The point is that there is nothing really to debate here, at least not with you. You are lamenting that this country lost a leader who helped facilitate the death knell of small businesses but now that Biden's dumb ass is going to put them out of their misery it's time to give a damn.
The ultra rich are getting ultra richer and the middle class and small businesses are shrinking. That's the goal of the new wing of the political party you deem to be essential to this great nation. I'd like small businesses to do well, but undoing 40+ years of intentional damage just seems like a pipe dream.
Oh, and not lying about covid could have helped save a lot of small businesses.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Forever Spinning Vinyl - 01-23-2021
$15 an hour does indeed hurt the small businesses but does very little to the corporations that have maneuvered the laws and rules in their favor for decades and almost all of it has been through Republican leadership. I used to have links in my sig for our streaming stations. I stopped it because the cost was out of this world. I have to pay ASCAP, BMI and SESAC almost $1,400 a year for royalties for our little 100 watt radio station for an area that hits a max of 36,000 people. In order to stream, I need to pay another $1,300 a year to these companies plus another $500 a year to Sound Exchange for each channel. BMI and ASCAP only monitor website hits so theirs is a flat fee up to 1.6 million site hits but SESAC and Sound Exchange want a full rate for each station streamed. Combining the broadcast fees and streaming fees for our four stations, my totals are as follows
BMI $700 - around $350 for each license X 2 (1 broadcast, 1 streaming)
ASCAP $750 - around $375 for each license X 2 (1 broadcast, 1 streaming)
SESAC $3,300 - around $660 for each license X 5 (1 broadcast, 4 streaming)
Sound Exchange $2,000 - $500 for each X 4 (4 streaming)
4 stations through our streaming service provider/server host was $40 per month per station. That's $160 per month or $1,920 per year
For a little non-profit radio station in a small town in Alaska, the cheapest I can get for 1 broadcast station and 4 streaming stations is $8,670 per year and that's not figuring in rent and internet, which is mandatory for the FCC to communicate with my Emergency Alert System. There is no cheaper legal option available and I'm not allowed to have the office in a residential zone.
HOWEVER, if I stop trying to do it myself and cave in to the corporate side of the business and go through Live365 for streaming, I still pay my $1,385 yearly broadcast fees myself, but, OH MY, does the big corporation get a sweet streaming deal that no small business can get by themselves. I can stream through them for only $60 a month per station. That's service provider/hosting fees and they pay all four licensing companies for only $2,880
https://live365.com/broadcaster/pricing/
$8,670 per year by myself
$4,265 per year paying through a corporation and I can assure you that they are not giving me the deal at cost. They are still making money off of us while they still run their ads on our streaming stations. If I choose the non-ad option, it's $5,225 per year for broadcast and streaming royalties.
Like I said, $15 per hour does hurt the small businesses but does very little to the big corporations that have spent decades stacking the deck against the little man. It's either you against the world or "Get in the ***** line". There are many reasons why I'm not a Republican. The embracing of "Corporations are people, too" is the biggest reason I'll never be one.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - BFritz21 - 02-11-2021
Just saw a prediction that a $15 minimum wage will kill 1.2 jobs and then I'm thinking that it would probably trickle down and eliminate even more jobs.
The problems with a flat $15 hour minimum wage is that big corporations can absorb that without a problem but it kills small businesses, and not to mention that $15 is a different level of value in different places. $15 an hour might not be a lot in NYC but it could cost a lot of people their jobs in small towns in states like Iowa.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Belsnickel - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 04:07 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Just saw a prediction that a $15 minimum wage will kill 1.2 jobs and then I'm thinking that it would probably trickle down and eliminate even more jobs.
The problems with a flat $15 hour minimum wage is that big corporations can absorb that without a problem but it kills small businesses, and not to mention that $15 is a different level of value in different places. $15 an hour might not be a lot in NYC but it could cost a lot of people their jobs in small towns in states like Iowa.
So, the estimate is actually 1.4 million. Here is the source for this: https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2021-02/56975-Minimum-Wage.pdf
Now, obviously, not a good thing to see. A couple things to keep in mind is that the methodology used for this isn't a guarantee. This is creating an estimate based on this policy and not other potential policies put in place to mitigate the effects. Now, I know people like to be dismissive of CBO estimates when it doesn't provide them with a confirmation of their preconceived notions. I'm not one of those people; the CBO does as good of a job as they can with the information they have. However, we need to understand that forecasting is anything but an exact science and having a CBO estimate like this before a bill comes to fruition means that there is an opportunity to adjust it.
I do want to say, though, that the 1.4 million jobs lost doesn't actually concern me as much on its own as it does when compared with the estimate of the number lifted out of poverty. The CBO has an estimate of 0.9 people lifted out of poverty with this policy. That means more people lose jobs than are lifted out of poverty. That means there are some serious adjustments needed to the policy because that is not a net benefit in my eyes.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - BigPapaKain - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 04:07 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Just saw a prediction that a $15 minimum wage will kill 1.2 jobs and then I'm thinking that it would probably trickle down and eliminate even more jobs.
The problems with a flat $15 hour minimum wage is that big corporations can absorb that without a problem but it kills small businesses, and not to mention that $15 is a different level of value in different places. $15 an hour might not be a lot in NYC but it could cost a lot of people their jobs in small towns in states like Iowa.
If your business relies on paying your employees a wage that is below livable, you really shouldn't have a business or employees (one or the other, not both).
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Belsnickel - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 08:46 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: If your business relies on paying your employees a wage that is below livable, you really shouldn't have a business or employees (one or the other, not both).
Here is the problem, though. I'm going to use it on a state-by-state basis, though, because localities would be a huge undertaking to break down. Let's look at Iowa, like Brad mentioned. According to MIT's Living Wage Calculator, a living wage in Iowa is roughly $11/hour for a single adult. https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/19
So while I am fairly certain that an argument against increasing wages is terrible, we need a more targeted approach. I get why this is being done on a federal level, because Republican statehouses have prevented any movement on this issue, but we really need to re-evaluate the approach.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Au165 - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 08:53 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is the problem, though. I'm going to use it on a state-by-state basis, though, because localities would be a huge undertaking to break down. Let's look at Iowa, like Brad mentioned. According to MIT's Living Wage Calculator, a living wage in Iowa is roughly $11/hour for a single adult. https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/19
So while I am fairly certain that an argument against increasing wages is terrible, we need a more targeted approach. I get why this is being done on a federal level, because Republican statehouses have prevented any movement on this issue, but we really need to re-evaluate the approach.
I have been leaning this way for a while now. Just like I don't think the stimulus should rely on flat numbers across the country for both qualification and payout, I don't think minimum wage should be a flat rate either. The vast differences in the CofL across the country require more targeted approaches and I think the advantage of that would be better optics and more palatable legislation for people to push through.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - BigPapaKain - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 08:53 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Here is the problem, though. I'm going to use it on a state-by-state basis, though, because localities would be a huge undertaking to break down. Let's look at Iowa, like Brad mentioned. According to MIT's Living Wage Calculator, a living wage in Iowa is roughly $11/hour for a single adult. https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/19
So while I am fairly certain that an argument against increasing wages is terrible, we need a more targeted approach. I get why this is being done on a federal level, because Republican statehouses have prevented any movement on this issue, but we really need to re-evaluate the approach.
I'll concede that a targeted approach makes more sense than a sweeping change. I'm just saying that the argument that a mandated pay raise will kill small businesses is bullshit. You're not gonna break my heart shutting down businesses that rely on damn near slave labor to turn a profit.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Belsnickel - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 09:22 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: I'll concede that a targeted approach makes more sense than a sweeping change. I'm just saying that the argument that a mandated pay raise will kill small businesses is bullshit. You're not gonna break my heart shutting down businesses that rely on damn near slave labor to turn a profit.
Yeah, I don't disagree with that. If we really want small businesses to thrive, anyway, we need to improve our social safety nets.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Belsnickel - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 09:11 AM)Au165 Wrote: I have been leaning this way for a while now. Just like I don't think the stimulus should rely on flat numbers across the country for both qualification and payout, I don't think minimum wage should be a flat rate either. The vast differences in the CofL across the country require more targeted approaches and I think the advantage of that would be better optics and more palatable legislation for people to push through.
The frustrating thing is that states have been in what experts refer to as a "race to the bottom" for the past couple of decades. As states, and this is both for Republican and Democrat led states, have worked to attract businesses within their borders and chase that perpetual economic expansion, they have implemented policies that have been to the detriment of their citizenry. Our crumbling infrastructure is a sign of this as states and localities lack funding for the projects needed to maintain it. The citizens lack a living wage due to the idea of passing wage reform being a no-go because of the fear of businesses leaving their borders.
This is the issue with neo-liberal policies. Chasing that continual economic growth, which is not sustainable, anyway, has supplanted the concern for the citizenry. This is where the quotes in my signature come into play.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - GMDino - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 10:25 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The frustrating thing is that states have been in what experts refer to as a "race to the bottom" for the past couple of decades. As states, and this is both for Republican and Democrat led states, have worked to attract businesses within their borders and chase that perpetual economic expansion, they have implemented policies that have been to the detriment of their citizenry. Our crumbling infrastructure is a sign of this as states and localities lack funding for the projects needed to maintain it. The citizens lack a living wage due to the idea of passing wage reform being a no-go because of the fear of businesses leaving their borders.
This is the issue with neo-liberal policies. Chasing that continual economic growth, which is not sustainable, anyway, has supplanted the concern for the citizenry. This is where the quotes in my signature come into play.
Even our very conservative republican owner said last week that he understands the need to raise the PA minimum after he found out how long it's been since it was changed.
Targeted is the way to go.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - BFritz21 - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 08:46 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: If your business relies on paying your employees a wage that is below livable, you really shouldn't have a business or employees (one or the other, not both).
It’s called a small business for a reason. A small restaurant in a small town might have no way of making enough to pay employees $15 just because of the lack of people to eat there, so what happens? They have to close and all their business goes to an Applebee’s or some other big chain that could take on the $15 minimum wage, so the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer. Isn’t that what the entire Democratic platform is against? Aren’t they hurting their own philosophy?
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Nately120 - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 03:30 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It’s called a small business for a reason. A small restaurant in a small town might have no way of making enough to pay employees $15 just because of the lack of people to eat there, so what happens? They have to close and all their business goes to an Applebee’s or some other big chain that could take on the $15 minimum wage, so the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer. Isn’t that what the entire Democratic platform is against? Aren’t they hurting their own philosophy?
I thought democrats were more for just letting people get paid to not work. The more jobs lost the more democrats can get votes by promising people free money. Oh, and more poverty means more incentive for people to abort kids they can't pay for. Their plan is coming together, I'd say.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - GMDino - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 03:30 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It’s called a small business for a reason. A small restaurant in a small town might have no way of making enough to pay employees $15 just because of the lack of people to eat there, so what happens? They have to close and all their business goes to an Applebee’s or some other big chain that could take on the $15 minimum wage, so the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer. Isn’t that what the entire Democratic platform is against? Aren’t they hurting their own philosophy?
If a business can only survive by not paying their employees they are doomed to fail anyway.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Nately120 - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 03:39 PM)GMDino Wrote: If a business can only survive by not paying their employees they are doomed to fail anyway.
Suck it, Pittsburgh Pirates!
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - GMDino - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 03:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Suck it, Pittsburgh Pirates!
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media2.giphy.com/media/WAMrwrBKehWEPc7Ko0/giphy.gif)
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - BigPapaKain - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 03:30 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: It’s called a small business for a reason. A small restaurant in a small town might have no way of making enough to pay employees $15 just because of the lack of people to eat there, so what happens? They have to close and all their business goes to an Applebee’s or some other big chain that could take on the $15 minimum wage, so the rich keep getting richer and the poor get poorer. Isn’t that what the entire Democratic platform is against? Aren’t they hurting their own philosophy?
It's called capitalism, and it's the Republican's big thing. Every big chain started out as a Mom and Pop (for the most part). If your business isn't pulling in the clientele to afford you to pay your workers a livable wage than you deserve to fail for a multitude of reasons.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - BFritz21 - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 03:39 PM)GMDino Wrote: If a business can only survive by not paying their employees they are doomed to fail anyway.Once again, you avoid the subject of my post and all the points I make.
Businesses are surviving by paying their employees but a business cannot survive if they're forced to pay their employees more than they can budget for, or they have to lay people off, so either case is a loss for employees.
(02-11-2021, 03:49 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: It's called capitalism, and it's the Republican's big thing. Every big chain started out as a Mom and Pop (for the most part). If your business isn't pulling in the clientele to afford you to pay your workers a livable wage than you deserve to fail for a multitude of reasons.
You can't be serious with this post. You simply can't.
Most big chains may have started out as a mom and pops place, but those were different times and who says that all small restaurants want to be big chains? A lot of restaurants start out small and they like it that way because they make good food and they serve the community. They're places where families can gather and have meals in a more intimate setting than big chains.
It's like in Talladega Nights where Ricky Bobby talks about going out to get a nice, family dinner at a real classy place and they end up at Applebee's because they're just another number in Applebee's.
Even if your point about starting out small were still true today, how can a business grow if they're not making any money because they have to pay their employees a ridiculous minimum wage? You think that every business just opens and is all of the sudden making money? Businesses typically lose money in their first year-and-a-half to two years, which would be longer if they raise the minimum wage and would cause a lot of new businesses to never make it.
If that were the Republican's thing, they would be the ones pushing for a high minimum wage to knock out the small businesses.
And it's not just about restaurants because there's lots of other small businesses that will be wiped out by a high minimum wage.
RE: Biden Wants 15/Hour Min Wage - Nately120 - 02-11-2021
(02-11-2021, 06:29 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: If that were the Republican's thing, they would be the ones pushing for a high minimum wage to knock out the small businesses.
Between the pandemic and tax cuts for the ultra rich, I'd say small businesses are going the way of the dodo without the help of the liberal minimum wage hike. Giant corporations don't want to pay their employees $15 an hour, so ideally they'd probably want to just let covid and the wealth gap wipe out their competition slowly and then have the total monopoly as well as a low minimum wage.
Small business is headed out and big corp is here to stay...it just seems like the left and right have unified to deliver the various blows to do so.