(06-22-2023, 09:50 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: I am not in favor of our government wasting time on senseless legislation, but whenever the trans in sports issue starts to cost people opportunities for scholarships, actual scholarships themselves, and even money, then maybe it isn't as senseless as some believe. And while it may only be a "few" or a few "hundred" it needs to be addressed as it will only become more widespread. 

(06-22-2023, 10:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This can be alleviated by private colleges choosing to offer scholarships to biological women who finish behind trans women.  I'd go so far as to say business savvy individuals and institutions could spin this as a real positive and profitable thing given how many people would see the aggrieved woman as being a victim of the times and an inspirational story.

We all talk about our hypothetical daughters getting screwed by losing to a trans woman, but if my hypothetical daughter comes in second to a trans woman I'm getting a press agent and getting Fox News on the phone and getting a Go Fund Me set up and calling every non ultra liberal college and shaking them down to give her a scholarship to show how much they support fairness in women's sports. 

(06-22-2023, 10:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did someone lose a scholarship or did a trans person get a scholarship?  Or is just another thing that never happened for he right to get mad about?

(06-22-2023, 10:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did someone lose a scholarship or did a trans person get a scholarship?  Or is just another thing that never happened for he right to get mad about?

(06-22-2023, 09:50 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: As I am reading this thread and formulating a reply in my head, I came across this post. 

This is a masterpiece. It sums up perfectly my thoughts and what I wanted to reply. Thank you. You put it into words better than I ever could have. 

I am not in favor of our government wasting time on senseless legislation, but whenever the trans in sports issue starts to cost people opportunities for scholarships, actual scholarships themselves, and even money, then maybe it isn't as senseless as some believe. And while it may only be a "few" or a few "hundred" it needs to be addressed as it will only become more widespread. 

It's interesting to see the mental and logical gymnastics that people are doing to defend the indefensible. From arguing about young children playing sports together, to citing recreational co-ed sports, to girls playing HS football among other things, it laughable. 

Let's be honest, this isn't about any of those things. It is specifically about men playing in women's sports at the highest academic levels. 
It doesn't matter if U7 soccer is co-ed. It doesn't matter if U9 girls soccer kicks U9 boys ass. It doesn't matter that the occasional girls soccer player kicks FGs for the HS football team, she's actually competing UP a level.   

What matters is girls at the highest levels of athletics, the level that is the culmination of years of hard work and the level that can actually bring them recognition, scholarships, and money, could be robbed of those opportunities. It's unfair. And shouldn't be allowed. Period. End of story. Full stop. 

What is ironic is that the ideology that is supposed to be the most supportive of women can suddenly be so anti-woman. To everyone who is defending this absurdity at any level, I have to ask, 'why are you anti-woman and why do you hate them so much?' 

(06-22-2023, 10:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This can be alleviated by private colleges choosing to offer scholarships to biological women who finish behind trans women.  I'd go so far as to say business savvy individuals and institutions could spin this as a real positive and profitable thing given how many people would see the aggrieved woman as being a victim of the times and an inspirational story.

(06-22-2023, 10:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: Did someone lose a scholarship or did a trans person get a scholarship?  Or is just another thing that never happened for he right to get mad about?

(06-23-2023, 09:09 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: And how long before cries of discrimination, bigotry, and hate ring out against said institutions when the woman who finished behind the trans athlete is offered a scholarship over the trans athlete simply because she isn't trans? 



Potentially. And if this is allowed to normalize, that 'potentially' will almost assuredly happen. 



I see that you two are going with the 'it doesn't happen' or the 'it happens so little, it doesn't matter' or the 'it doesn't happen to you (hypothetical daughter)' defense. 

What are your stances on governmental bans/control/regulation regarding assault rifles (no need to state it, I already looked)? If you're being honest and consistent, you should either not have an opinion, or be against government ban/control/regulation, since people being shot and killed by assault weapons 'happens so little' and that you likely do not know of anyone personally who has been (hypothetical friend). 

Neither of you have answered the questions...why are you anti-woman and why do you hate women?


I love this topic as it is has the Left chasing their tails and exposes the most dizzy ideologues who are unable to stop the tail chasing and look up 

Quote:Odds of a High School Swimmer competing in College  2022:

[color=var(--head-text-color)]College Swimming Odds 2022:

[color=var(--head-text-color)]Male[/color]
[color=var(--head-text-color)]Female[/color]Number of US High School Swimmers 2021-22

139,002
168,948
Number of College Swimmers (see table below)

11,635
15,136
% of US HS Swimmers competing at any College Level

7.6%
8.1%
% of US HS Swimmers Competing at NCAA I Schools

2.5%
3.2%
Odds of a US HS Swimmer making any College Roster

13:1
12:1
Odds of a US HS Swimmer making an NCAA I Roster

40:1
32:1
[/color]
These are the odds of a random US high school swimmer making a college roster – odds are adjusted for foreign student athlete participation. Actual odds are likely better for most athletes motivated to play in college due to several factors: High school participation includes multi-sport athletes who typically play only one sport in college, many high school athletes do not intend to compete at the college level, and unfortunately, a significant portion of high school students –  including athletes – do not go on to college.  See our page on the odds of competing in college for more information.

(06-22-2023, 09:50 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: As I am reading this thread and formulating a reply in my head, I came across this post. 

This is a masterpiece. It sums up perfectly my thoughts and what I wanted to reply. Thank you. You put it into words better than I ever could have. 

I am not in favor of our government wasting time on senseless legislation, but whenever the trans in sports issue starts to cost people opportunities for scholarships, actual scholarships themselves, and even money, then maybe it isn't as senseless as some believe. And while it may only be a "few" or a few "hundred" it needs to be addressed as it will only become more widespread. 

It's interesting to see the mental and logical gymnastics that people are doing to defend the indefensible. From arguing about young children playing sports together, to citing recreational co-ed sports, to girls playing HS football among other things, it laughable. 

Let's be honest, this isn't about any of those things. It is specifically about men playing in women's sports at the highest academic levels. 
It doesn't matter if U7 soccer is co-ed. It doesn't matter if U9 girls soccer kicks U9 boys ass. It doesn't matter that the occasional girls soccer player kicks FGs for the HS football team, she's actually competing UP a level.   

What matters is girls at the highest levels of athletics, the level that is the culmination of years of hard work and the level that can actually bring them recognition, scholarships, and money, could be robbed of those opportunities. It's unfair. And shouldn't be allowed. Period. End of story. Full stop. 

What is ironic is that the ideology that is supposed to be the most supportive of women can suddenly be so anti-woman. To everyone who is defending this absurdity at any level, I have to ask, 'why are you anti-woman and why do you hate them so much?' 

(06-23-2023, 01:12 PM)pally Wrote: I'm so glad to see so many of you are suddenly concerned about opportunities for women.  Hopefully, that concern extends to opportunities in the workplace, in government, in pay

Shoot how about equal facilities in sports

(06-23-2023, 01:36 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Goal post moving again.  Instead of making vague allusions to lack of support for women try finding actual examples of it not being done.  It's an obvious attempt to deflect from the argument being made about basic fairness rather than actually confronting and addressing it.

(06-23-2023, 02:40 PM)pally Wrote: No goal posts were moved.  There is more to advocating for oppoortunties for women than bashing transgendered athletes

Quote:woman make 82% of what men make

Quote:Women are 51% of the population
There are 42 female CEO of S&P 500 companies (8.4%)
There are 25 female senators (25%)
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/19/979395795/mens-and-womens-ncaa-march-madness-facilities-separate-and-unequal-spark-uproar

Quote:https://onherturf.nbcsports.com/2021/11/01/ncaa-report-gender-disparities-mens-womens-championship-tournaments/

(06-23-2023, 09:49 AM)GMDino Wrote: My stance on guns is that we have a right to own them as is in the constitution.  

 There are more guns than people in the US.  Guns travel across state lines and have the potential to affect absolutely anyone at any time.  So if Congress or a state legislature chooses to pass a law that applies to everyone who owns or could potentially own a gun that is the apples to the trans sports person oranges, IMHO.

And I didn't answer that question because it doesn't deserve an answer.  Obviously we don't hate women.  Obviously we are having a discussion on whether the possibility of a trans person participating in a sport is unfair or need banned or regulated and by who.

And obviously we want to treat all people with respect who are not harming others.

(06-24-2023, 12:11 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I owned 5 restaurants, my DO, Supervisor and 3 restaurant managers were women. Women in my organization were higher paid than men. Maybe because I had 3 daughters, but more so because the women were qualified and out performed their male counter parts. In the end, everything is about results if we are being fair. Woman got the promotions, more money and better benefits because they earned it.

(06-24-2023, 12:11 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I heard some comparisons to a biological male competing against a woman.

Would it be OK for a 16 year old to compete against 12 year olds in any sport?
Would it be OK for a 200 lb.s cage fighter to compete against a 140 lb. fighter?

Of course not. There are rules governing competitions to maintain fairness for all participants.

The fact Riley Gaines and female swimmers had to dress and undress in front of Thomas (still has male parts) sharing the same locker room is flat out criminal.

As for women, I coached a youth select soccer team from the time the young ladies were 10 until they were 19. I had a bigger goal for them besides winning state, regional and national titles. My goal from the time they were 14 was help them achieve a college soccer scholarship if that was their goal. We discussed not only soccer, but grades and school trumped soccer practice. I am happy to say that all 18 of my players received some type of scholarship for soccer and academics. 9 of these young women got full rides.

I owned 5 restaurants, my DO, Supervisor and 3 restaurant managers were women. Women in my organization were higher paid than men. Maybe because I had 3 daughters, but more so because the women were qualified and out performed their male counter parts. In the end, everything is about results if we are being fair. Woman got the promotions, more money and better benefits because they earned it.

(06-24-2023, 03:21 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I just want to point out that neither of your examples are very good in the spirit of this conversation. Both of them do occur. Specifically, weight mismatched fights are more common and actually have a name - absolute. You’ll find absolute divisions in many combat sports where this is no weight class designations and a 140 pound person will fight someone much larger. Below is an example of such a match - a BJJ absolute match between a man who is 250 pounds and a man who is 149 pounds.

https://youtu.be/MNQ_tWbz_0c

For the other example, I am not sure how common it is but 7th and 8th graders can and do play varsity sports, if they are good enough. Trent Seaborn is an example of an 8th grader playing varsity and doing well. Age 12 is going to be sixth or seventh grade, which will be significantly rarer but you can find stories of seventh graders playing varsity.

(06-24-2023, 03:28 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Fail, your examples are pointing out competitors who elected to compete beyond their designated division.  No one asked these women if they wanted to compete against biological males.  I remember a story about a transfemale powerlifter who was shattering records as a woman, yet was ranked down near #100 when he was competing as a male.  That's not electing to level up, but rather than electing to bully a lesser talent pool.