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+--- Thread: Cocaine in the West Wing (/Thread-Cocaine-in-the-West-Wing)
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - HarleyDog - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 08:57 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The board gets it, you care about people if they are a Democrat and demonize the Trump family and anyone with "R" by their name. They are fair game to attack at all costs, but Hunter and Joe Biden are saints.
![[Image: he-aintlyin-preach.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/CpUhF7EeYXgAAAAC/he-aintlyin-preach.gif)
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - GMDino - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 10:32 AM)HarleyDog Wrote:
Well, I mean, he kind of is.
He doesn't know me. He's making a jump in logic based on his own biases.
I explained to him that I do care if Jr is a drug addict. And I would hope he gets help. But I'll add that based on his public persona I don't imagine that would happen.
I'm certainly no expert and would never claim to be no matter my experiences with drug addicts, but he has definitely taken a downward turn over the years.
Even one of the women he had an affair with said he did drugs with her...but not cocaine then.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 08:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: Got any proof that he is?
See, SSF said he HAS a sever drug problem and didn't get the help SSF thinks he should without any knowledge of either.
Of course he does. An addict is always an addict, this is recovery 101. Your complete lack of training and knowledge on this subject isn't helping your case here. Biden has admitted to massive substance abuse issues, both directly and inadvertently with his lap top. He will bear this burden until the day he dies.
Quote:So he, and now you, bear the burden of proof. Not me.
No, we're not in a court of law, we can comfortably state our opinion based on observation. Biden recently settled a court case with attending rehab as a condition of the settlement, no? This would lead a logical person to conclude that substance abuse is still an issue, or the rehabilitation element of his plea would not exist. Why send a person who's been sober for two years to rehab? That's actually counterproductive as you're surrounding them with people who are still actively using.
Quote:Addiction is a horrible thing and I'm glad he's had the support of his family and tries to beat back his demons. That doesn't mean he's won or isn't still trying. I'm just smart enough to know that I don't know.
But you do know about other people, right?
(07-06-2023, 01:43 PM)GMDino Wrote: Hunter is recovering. Jr is in denial.
Oh, my.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - hollodero - 07-07-2023
(07-06-2023, 08:24 PM)GMDino Wrote: Yep. No one said he was an angel or even a good guy. But most of the accusations and actual crimes occurred while he was an an active addict. I would hope he is getting clean now and if he is he has a lot to make for.
I'd still give him more credit for trying to turn his life around no matter his age or what he has done to himself, than blanketly accuse him of being an active addict for no other reason than he is a Biden.
I'm talking about a human being...not a political talking point.
Well, you suggested to admire him though, which just is a bridge too far for many and I can understand why.
And I'd also say that all his shady businesses can not be excused by drug use. It wasn't cocaine that made him sit on a Burisma board, it was Hunter monetizing his last name. And as soon as you do that (and then do dealings in China that are shady as well), your deed will turn into a political talking point. Don't register as a foreign agent, something treated as the crime of the century when Flynn was concerned, and don't pay your due taxes, and well you'll get chastised, and suggesting to give him credit instead is tough to swallow.
Of course, I don't wish him ill, may he recover. And yeah I would not dare calling him an active addict too.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - GMDino - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 12:15 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Of course he does. An addict is always an addict, this is recovery 101. Your complete lack of training and knowledge on this subject isn't helping your case here. Biden has admitted to massive substance abuse issues, both directly and inadvertently with his lap top. He will bear this burden until the day he dies.
No, we're not in a court of law, we can comfortably state our opinion based on observation. Biden recently settled a court case with attending rehab as a condition of the settlement, no? This would lead a logical person to conclude that substance abuse is still an issue, or the rehabilitation element of his plea would not exist. Why send a person who's been sober for two years to rehab? That's actually counterproductive as you're surrounding them with people who are still actively using.
But you do know about other people, right?
Oh, my.
Of course I know once an addict always an addict. You said he HAS a sever drug addiction and since you don't think he went to a facility you inferred he is still actively using drugs.
You don't want o have to provide proof (and I didn't ask you because you didn't ask me for proof that he is clean) because you are hiding behind it being "an opinion", yet earlier you were quite sure due to your "experience". That's quite the flip-flop you have working for you there. And your hang up on the pleas deal is probably more to do with you being jaded to the system than anything else. Just an opinion based on what your write about DA's and defendants.
All I can do is observe behavior and offer my opinion.
I have not claimed to be an expert. I have not claimed that I am absolutely right. Unlike, well, some people.
Others, who knew him, have said publicly that JR used drugs. I do not know of him ever seeking help. They say Sr is addicted to Adderall too. All I know is what I have read.
That's all you know too, but this gives you a chance to flex those 20+ years and talk down to anyone who disagrees. Because how could their opinion be as good as yours?
Which reminds me:
I asked earlier about your experiences and if you wanted people to turn their life around. If you would admire them for the efforts. Seemed you didn't answer that.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - Luvnit2 - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 11:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well, I mean, he kind of is.
He doesn't know me. He's making a jump in logic based on his own biases.
I explained to him that I do care if Jr is a drug addict. And I would hope he gets help. But I'll add that based on his public persona I don't imagine that would happen.
I'm certainly no expert and would never claim to be no matter my experiences with drug addicts, but he has definitely taken a downward turn over the years.
Even one of the women he had an affair with said he did drugs with her...but not cocaine then.
Please provide the link for Don Jr. doing drugs and type of drugs he did.
Obama told us he did drugs, Kamala told us she did drugs.
So please show us Don Jr. is/was a cocaine addict like hunter Biden. Please provide the photos that Hunter provided the world by being careless with his laptop. Hunter is a white privileged middle age man who acted like a teenager. He has. no fear of breaking the law, the DOJ, FBI, and Secret Service have his back. Why did the secret service intervene with the gun seller when Hunter illegally bought his gun? Joe Biden was not the President or the Vice President at the time, so why would the SS intervene to protect HB?
Each day more questions about HB, but more importantly about Joe Biden being compromised and taking bribes from China, Romania and Ukraine. Unlike the fake Russian collusion narrative pushed by the FBI, DOJ and liberal media, this is not a conspiracy theory, each day more damning evidence showing Joe Biden lied when he said he never discussed business with Hunter of Jim Biden. He not only discussed it, he is "the big guy" in Hunter Biden emails getting paid and also funneling money to his family including his grand kids.
I could care less if Joe Biden goes to prison, but I would love our government to do a fair and impartial investigation, find the money and then confiscate every penny, take their assets like houses and cars. It would be the first thing Joe Biden did to help the debt.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - GMDino - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 12:30 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, you suggested to admire him though, which just is a bridge too far for many and I can understand why.
And I'd also say that all his shady businesses can not be excused by drug use. It wasn't cocaine that made him sit on a Burisma board, it was Hunter monetizing his last name. And as soon as you do that (and then do dealings in China that are shady as well), your deed will turn into a political talking point. Don't register as a foreign agent, something treated as the crime of the century when Flynn was concerned, and don't pay your due taxes, and well you'll get chastised, and suggesting to give him credit instead is tough to swallow.
Of course, I don't wish him ill, may he recover. And yeah I would not dare calling him an active addict too.
I certainly admire anyone who tries to come back from smoking crack multiple times a day.
Everything else is outside of that. I don't admire someone who simply lives off their family name. I don't admire people who broke the law.
I do have respect for people who admit they broke the law and try to make it right and then turn their lives around.
That's person, not the politics.
Flynn, for example, was convicted because he admitted to it, then he changed his mind...then he was pardoned. Then doubled down on everything he did before he was convicted. That's no some who realized he did something wrong and then tried to make his life better after getting a second chance.
Maybe somewhere down the line we'll find out Hunter is using again and he has another laptop and he stole furniture from the WH to sell for crack. I'll be disappointed and my respect for cleaning up and giving what would then be only the appearance of straightening out his life would go by the wayside.
I care for his well being as I would for anyone who struggles but I don't have to continue to support them if they are not changing or they are lying. Time will tell.
He's a human being, but he's not one my family or friends.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - GMDino - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 12:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Please provide the link for Don Jr. doing drugs and type of drugs he did.
Obama told us he did drugs, Kamala told us she did drugs.
So please show us Don Jr. is/was a cocaine addict like hunter Biden. Please provide the photos that Hunter provided the world by being careless with his laptop. Hunter is a white privileged middle age man who acted like a teenager. He has. no fear of breaking the law, the DOJ, FBI, and Secret Service have his back. Why did the secret service intervene with the gun seller when Hunter illegally bought his gun? Joe Biden was not the President or the Vice President at the time, so why would the SS intervene to protect HB?
Each day more questions about HB, but more importantly about Joe Biden being compromised and taking bribes from China, Romania and Ukraine. Unlike the fake Russian collusion narrative pushed by the FBI, DOJ and liberal media, this is not a conspiracy theory, each day more damning evidence showing Joe Biden lied when he said he never discussed business with Hunter of Jim Biden. He not only discussed it, he is "the big guy" in Hunter Biden emails getting paid and also funneling money to his family including his grand kids.
I could care less if Joe Biden goes to prison, but I would love our government to do a fair and impartial investigation, find the money and then confiscate every penny, take their assets like houses and cars. It would be the first thing Joe Biden did to help the debt.
You didn't even read what I posted. You just ranted back because Trump.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 12:31 PM)GMDino Wrote: Of course I know once an addict always an addict. You said he HAS a sever drug addiction and since you don't think he went to a facility you inferred he is still actively using drugs.
He does, and always will. BTW, you're the one who started this whole conjecture by saying he was in recovery. If I can't say he's definitely using then you can't say he's definitively in recovery. This sword cuts both ways.
Quote:You don't want o have to provide proof (and I didn't ask you because you didn't ask me for proof that he is clean) because you are hiding behind it being "an opinion", yet earlier you were quite sure due to your "experience". That's quite the flip-flop you have working for you there. And your hang up on the pleas deal is probably more to do with you being jaded to the system than anything else. Just an opinion based on what your write about DA's and defendants.
As stated above, this is an opinion versus opinion argument as neither of us have direct access to that human turd. Based on my experience with addicts, which is far more extensive than yours, and my numerous trainings on the subject I can make a judgment based on known facts. Is it correct? Potentially no, but do I think it's correct, yes. Again we're both stating our opinion, a subject you started by giving yours.
Quote:All I can do is observe behavior and offer my opinion.
Oh, you mean exactly what I'm doing?
Quote:I have not claimed to be an expert. I have not claimed that I am absolutely right. Unlike, well, some people.
I am an expert on this subject. I don't have to claim it. I have thousands of hours of real world experience dealing with addicts, not to mention numerous trainings. Again, you love experts until they disagree with you, then they're meaningless.
Quote:Others, who knew him, have said publicly that JR used drugs. I do not know of him ever seeking help. They say Sr is addicted to Adderall too. All I know is what I have read.
I have zero doubt Don Jr. used drugs. It's very possible he still is. You definitively stated he was, which is your opinion. The problem is your hypocrisy when someone else made the same claim about Hunter.
Quote:That's all you know too, but this gives you a chance to flex those 20+ years and talk down to anyone who disagrees. Because how could their opinion be as good as yours?
On this subject your opinion is absolutely not on par with mine. Unless you have some expertise in this area that you haven't shared with the class. Is that the case? Also, "flex those 20+ years"? Could you be more condescending? Again, you love experts unless they disagree with you. You're so blinded by partisanship and ideology you don't even see your consistent, and massive, contradictions. Two of them being expertly demonstrated in this very thread.
Quote:Which reminds me:
I asked earlier about your experiences and if you wanted people to turn their life around. If you would admire them for the efforts. Seemed you didn't answer that.
I'm happy to answer. A person who genuinely tries to turn their life around deserves applause, even if they're a convicted murderer who will never be free again. I don't think Hunter falls into that category, you do. Both, again, opinions.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - Luvnit2 - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 11:28 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well, I mean, he kind of is.
He doesn't know me. He's making a jump in logic based on his own biases.
I explained to him that I do care if Jr is a drug addict. And I would hope he gets help. But I'll add that based on his public persona I don't imagine that would happen.
I'm certainly no expert and would never claim to be no matter my experiences with drug addicts, but he has definitely taken a downward turn over the years.
Even one of the women he had an affair with said he did drugs with her...but not cocaine then.
Hmmm...........I read it and you were trying to paint Jr. as a drug addict. So, I asked for the link.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - SunsetBengal - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 12:15 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Of course he does. An addict is always an addict, this is recovery 101. Your complete lack of training and knowledge on this subject isn't helping your case here. Biden has admitted to massive substance abuse issues, both directly and inadvertently with his lap top. He will bear this burden until the day he dies.That don't matter, so long as you are skilled in forming cyclical arguments that just keep saying the same thing until the other party gets tired of indulging.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 01:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That don't matter, so long as you are skilled in forming cyclical arguments that just keep saying the same thing until the other party gets tired of indulging.
It does get tiring. Thankfully Hollo is posting more now and provides a refreshing break from that.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - GMDino - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 01:01 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Hmmm...........I read it and you were trying to paint Jr. as a drug attic. So, I asked for the link.
So when I said I'd care *if* he was, because I was accused of not caring because he is a republican, you think that means I am accusing of definitely being one?
I said I have no idea other than what others have said...and I provided a link for that.
One that said Jr didn't like cocaine. That's how I know you didn't read it.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - GMDino - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 01:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That don't matter, so long as you are skilled in forming cyclical arguments that just keep saying the same thing until the other party gets tired of indulging.
Yes, heaven forbid one not just say he's right but rather explain his position when it misinterpreted...perhaps on purpose.
I guess that's too much for the board to bear.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - hollodero - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 12:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: I certainly admire anyone who tries to come back from smoking crack multiple times a day.
Well, either all my translators are broken or I can't quite share the notion. I get being supportive, encouraging, wishing the person well, even respecting him for honestly trying. But admiration, for me that is saved for actually following through. Trying is easy. Succeeding is the hard part.
I wouldn't care all that much, would I not believe to grasp why suggesting people should actually admire Hunter causes some backlash. And for Yankee's thumbsup, of course :)
(07-07-2023, 12:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: I do have respect for people who admit they broke the law and try to make it right and then turn their lives around.
Yeah that wasn't exactly what Hunter was doing though, was it. He admitted it because they caught him, not because he felt so remorseful and found it to be a moral obligation. My respect for folks taking plea deals to avoid larger sentences is limited.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - SunsetBengal - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 08:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: Got any proof that he is?
See, SSF said he HAS a sever drug problem and didn't get the help SSF thinks he should without any knowledge of either.
So he, and now you, bear the burden of proof. Not me.
Addiction is a horrible thing and I'm glad he's had the support of his family and tries to beat back his demons. That doesn't mean he's won or isn't still trying. I'm just smart enough to know that I don't know.
Quote:Hunter Biden has a history of drug addiction and has been to rehab several times123. He went to a 12-step retreat in the fall of 2014 and in February 20161. In 2015, he went to rehab at a center out of the University of Pennsylvania followed by an inpatient program and another program in Washington, D.C.1. He had "six stints in rehab for alcoholism and addiction that included a crack binge in 2016"2. He first relapsed in November 2010, after seven years of sobriety, and then again in 20133.
It's not a bridge too far an addict with as storied of history as Hunter Biden to be the first one with a finger pointed at him when drugs are found in the White House. For the number of times that he's relapsed, it's not at all over the top for the public to ask him to prove that he is/has been clean during his time/times at the White House. For YOU to claim that a person who pays taxes has the burden of proving that the addict was the one with the drugs is laughable at best.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - BengalYankee - 07-07-2023
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - GMDino - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 01:33 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, either all my translators are broken or I can't quite share the notion. I get being supportive, encouraging, wishing the person well, even respecting him for honestly trying. But admiration, for me that is saved for actually following through. Trying is easy. Succeeding is the hard part.
I wouldn't care all that much, would I not believe to grasp why suggesting people should actually admire Hunter causes some backlash. And for Yankee's thumbsup, of course :)
Yeah that wasn't exactly what Hunter was doing though, was it. He admitted it because they caught him, not because he felt so remorseful and found it to be a moral obligation. My respect for folks taking plea deals to avoid larger sentences is limited.
Well maybe admire was a poor choice of words for one reason or another. But as to admitting only when caught sometimes one has to hit rock bottom before you can start back up.
I can understand others not giving him any quarter for their own reasons. I'm just explaining mine.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - GMDino - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 01:37 PM)BengalYankee Wrote:
Nothing at all to do with this thread or discussion. Thanks.
RE: Cocaine in the West Wing - KillerGoose - 07-07-2023
(07-07-2023, 01:34 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: It's not a bridge too far an addict with as storied of history as Hunter Biden to be the first one with a finger pointed at him when drugs are found in the White House. For the number of times that he's relapsed, it's not at all over the top for the public to ask him to prove that he is/has been clean during his time/times at the White House. For YOU to claim that a person who pays taxes has the burden of proving that the addict was the one with the drugs is laughable at best.
Honestly, with the information we have, I don't think it is Hunter. The Biden family went to Camp David on, what, Thursday/Friday? The bag was found Sunday evening. So, Hunter was gone for at least 60 or so hours before the bag was found. It was also found in a cubby where visitors are asked to place their phones during tours. Now, officials can use this cubby if they are going into a meeting where they can't have their phones. The White House has confirmed that tours took place both on Saturday & Sunday. That bag would have had to have sit there, in front of tourists and officials alike as they used those cubbies without anyone raising an alarm. It also would have had to survive multiple Secret Service sweeps.
The most likely explanation is that a tourist ****** up somehow and it was placed there at some point during Sunday. Maybe an official that was flustered about being late to a meeting and hastily emptied his pocket.