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+---- Thread: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion (/Thread-Oklahoma-Legislature-passes-bill-criminalizing-abortion)
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - NATI BENGALS - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:26 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Didn't Colorado pass a law knowing it was illegal? As i said there is one reason that folks are against this and not so much against the Colorado marijuana laws and it is not because of the function of government,
Because they like the idea of citizens having a choice?
Or is it the benefit to society? Drug money in criminals hands compared to tax revenue and jobs. Unwanted babies raised in poverty by a single parent or unhappy couple who didnt want/care for them compared to waiting until the proper means are there and then starting a family and raising a child that isnt viewed as a burden to the parent.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:17 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Because they like the idea of citizens having a choice?
Exactly; as do the folks from Oklahoma.
The rest was deleted because it was just more soapbox of why one is OK and one is not.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - GMDino - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exactly; as do the folks from Oklahoma.
The rest was deleted because it was just more soapbox of why one is OK and one is not.
They have choice to not get an abortion.
They want to take away the choice to get one.
Wait...
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:49 PM)GMDino Wrote: They have choice to not get an abortion.
They want to take away the choice to get one.
Wait...
I'll just chalk this up to your inability to keep up. The folks of OK have a choice to decide if they want abortions legal or not; just as the folks of CO have a choice if they want marijuana legal or not.
Nobody was talking about an individual choice; they were talking about the choice of the population. What would you say to the citizen of CO that wanted to follow the federal laws that recreational marijuana use illegal?
Insert confused smiley face.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - NATI BENGALS - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:38 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Exactly; as do the folks from Oklahoma.
The rest was deleted because it was just more soapbox of why one is OK and one is not.
Oh. I thought letting someone decide if they wanted to smoke weed was different than making them have a baby they didnt want. My bad. Musta got mixed up.
Making a woman have a child is not a choice. Abortion is an ugly thing. But forcing a person to go through an unwanted pregnancy and give birth is worse. Might as well have a slave chained up and impregnate them and make them give birth. Because that is the only option in your dream world.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:59 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Oh.
bfine32 Wrote:The rest was deleted because it was just more soapbox of why one is OK and one is not.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - NATI BENGALS - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll just chalk this up to your inability to keep up. The folks of OK have a choice to decide if they want abortions legal or not; just as the folks of CO have a choice if they want marijuana legal or not.
Nobody was talking about an individual choice; they were talking about the choice of the population. What would you say to the citizen of CO that wanted to follow the federal laws that recreational marijuana use illegal?
Insert confused smiley face.
Smoke this blunt or i will send you to jail for 3 years..? Did i get it right?
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 11:03 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Smoke this blunt or i will send you to jail for 3 years..? Did i get it right?
Unfortunately you did not. When the government forces folks to smoke dope or have sex, the we will be on the same page. Outside of that you are just displaying more of the "I like one and not the other and I don't let the function how either is approved get in the way of my preference."
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - GMDino - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll just chalk this up to your inability to keep up. The folks of OK have a choice to decide if they want abortions legal or not; just as the folks of CO have a choice if they want marijuana legal or not.
Nobody was talking about an individual choice; they were talking about the choice of the population. What would you say to the citizen of CO that wanted to follow the federal laws that recreational marijuana use illegal?
Insert confused smiley face.
So you're gonna ride with the legalizing weed is the same as abortion thing, huh?
You have fun with that.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/dFTaHS2SXyf1C/giphy.gif)
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 11:17 PM)GMDino Wrote: So
bfine32 Wrote:The rest was deleted because it was just more soapbox of why one is OK and one is not.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - NATI BENGALS - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 11:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Unfortunately you did not. When the government forces folks to smoke dope or have sex, the we will be on the same page. Outside of that you are just displaying more of the "I like one and not the other and I don't let the function how either is approved get in the way of my preference."
They arent forcing you to smoke dope. But they would be forcing you to birth a child. One gives the people a choice. The other says your government makes the choice. I dont care how it is approved I do care about what is being approved. You want to get high for a couple hours. Thats on you. You want to permanently alter someone elses body and life and make them legally responsible for 18 years. Thats on the government........ Seems legit
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-21-2016
(05-21-2016, 11:43 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: They arent forcing you to smoke dope.
They aren't forcing you to have sex.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - BmorePat87 - 05-22-2016
(05-21-2016, 10:57 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'll just chalk this up to your inability to keep up. The folks of OK have a choice to decide if they want abortions legal or not; just as the folks of CO have a choice if they want marijuana legal or not.
Nobody was talking about an individual choice; they were talking about the choice of the population. What would you say to the citizen of CO that wanted to follow the federal laws that recreational marijuana use illegal?
Insert confused smiley face.
I was going to ask the same question as Dino. I assumed you had some good logic here, but, honestly, I don't see any. Avoid the snark, too, because it honestly isn't good logic.
I see the motive behind the snark is that you think Dino is a bit slow for not realizing we're not discussing individual choice, we're discussing the will of the majority being forced on the minority. I may be speaking out of line here, but it seems pretty clear that Nati was indeed talking about individual choice.
In fact, lets look at his following post
Quote: Oh. I thought letting someone decide if they wanted to smoke weed was different than making them have a baby they didnt want. My bad. Musta got mixed up.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 05-22-2016
(05-20-2016, 08:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We have and the fact that you dispute life begins at conception puts you in the minority
According to one science literacy poll, fifty-three percent of Americans believe dinosaurs and men lived together. Stated another way, the majority of Americans are ***** idiots.
I'm accustomed to being in the minority when it relates to being correct about scientific knowledge. So I'm not surprised the less knowledgeable majority incorrectly believes life begins when two living cells combine.
Furthermore, if we discovered either of those two living cells on a distant planet in another galaxy across the universe it would mean we found life on another planet.
But, please continue explaining how others besides yourself are ignoring the science that conception involves living cells which are alive and therefore constitute life.
Once you're done with that maybe you can explain how living cells don't represent life?
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - NATI BENGALS - 05-22-2016
(05-21-2016, 11:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: They aren't forcing you to have sex.
oooup. You screwed around and smoked too much weed. Better lay around and get sober.
Ooohup. You had sex. And got pregnant. Better wait 9 months while something grows in your body then birth a human child and be legally responsible for 18 years.
Forcing unwanted child birth seems like the same thing as getting high for a couple hours to me...... WTF.... are you comparing?????
If smoking weed involved carrying something in my body for 9 months and then 18 years of legal responsibility I would understand the hardcore comparison attempt. But its just not even close.
From your position the morning after pill is an absolute no-no as well?
How many adopted children do you currently have living under your roof?
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - GMDino - 05-22-2016
(05-22-2016, 02:04 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I was going to ask the same question as Dino. I assumed you had some good logic here, but, honestly, I don't see any. Avoid the snark, too, because it honestly isn't good logic.
I see the motive behind the snark is that you think Dino is a bit slow for not realizing we're not discussing individual choice, we're discussing the will of the majority being forced on the minority. I may be speaking out of line here, but it seems pretty clear that Nati was indeed talking about individual choice.
In fact, lets look at his following post
There's no point Pat. He'll just alter his approach when he's shown to be taken the wrong one...again.
He wants to know how states can legally fight Roe v Wade.
He was told.
Now he wants to compare that to states legalizing marijuana.
States can try and pass laws that override federal laws. The federal government can then try and break them.
Which was the same answer...but not what he wants.
It's just riding the trolling-go-round until he gets bored, calls everyone who disagrees slow or "not very bright" (at least not as bright as him) or "he didn't mean / say that" and then changes the topic again.
OK did the only thing they could...pass a law that will be shot down in court after court. But they riled up the base (Larry) and they get people to think they actually care about children when all they care about are votes.
And if President Drumpf decides he won't enforce the new OK law? Someone will bring a suit against it...which will probably happen right after it gets signed into law. If it does.
Which hasn't happened in legalized weed states to the best of my knowledge. (And I'm kind of slow I've been told.)
A better comparison would have been gay marriage.
State after state passed laws to prevent it. It was fought in court. And in the end the states were wrong based on the law...not which religion they belong to or which group they want to vote for them or who was in the majority.
But as Nati said: Comparing the laws against abortion to the laws for weed is...well...something someone who says how smart they are shouldn't do.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-22-2016
(05-22-2016, 08:53 AM)GMDino Wrote: There's no point Pat. He'll just alter his approach when he's shown to be taken the wrong one...again.
He wants to know how states can legally fight Roe v Wade.
He was told.
BmorePat87 Wrote:While I completely disagree with big government trying to tell people what to do with their bodies, for those who are ok with big government regulating our bodies, I can see why they are ok with this law. It is the only way for them to challenge Roe v Wade.
There's no point Pat.
I've tried to direct to conversation more toward the legal aspect of what the citizens of OK propose to do. Unfortunately, that is impossible' as folks keep trying to go back to their personal opinions on abortion; a road we have been down a million times.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-22-2016
(05-22-2016, 02:04 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I was going to ask the same question as Dino. I assumed you had some good logic here, but, honestly, I don't see any. Avoid the snark, too, because it honestly isn't good logic.
I see the motive behind the snark is that you think Dino is a bit slow for not realizing we're not discussing individual choice, we're discussing the will of the majority being forced on the minority. I may be speaking out of line here, but it seems pretty clear that Nati was indeed talking about individual choice.
In fact, lets look at his following post
As I have said: folks are just letting their personal views on the matter cloud their look at the governmental function that Oklahoma is exercising.
As to the majority "forcing" their will on the minority: It is a function of Democracy. This November the majority will force their will on the minority
As to the snark: I ask that you go back and look at the beginning of this thread and see if you can determine where it started. Don't start none, won't be none.
Is smoking Marijuana to same thing as having an abortion? No. Is the function for determining the legality of each the same? Yes.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - bfine32 - 05-22-2016
(05-22-2016, 04:42 AM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: oooup. You screwed around and smoked too much weed. Better lay around and get sober.
Ooohup. You had sex. And got pregnant. Better wait 9 months while something grows in your body then birth a human child and be legally responsible for 18 years.
Forcing unwanted child birth seems like the same thing as getting high for a couple hours to me...... WTF.... are you comparing?????
If smoking weed involved carrying something in my body for 9 months and then 18 years of legal responsibility I would understand the hardcore comparison attempt. But its just not even close.
From your position the morning after pill is an absolute no-no as well?
How many adopted children do you currently have living under your roof?
As I said early when SSF and I were having a rational comment on the matter: I am not all or nothing on abortions. You could even take it back a step further than the morning after pill and say I must be against contraception. The morning after pill is a viable compromise.
Once again you are letting your personal opinion on the matter cloud the function that OK is employing. If the majority of their state wants abortions to be illegal then the majority rules. Someone that doesn't want the child growing inside them may be burdened with the inconvenience of travelling out of state to have it legally destroyed.
As to adoption: we have made inquiries. I have a co-worker that has 2. My youngest just left the nest and we have adequate resources to provide a loving safe environment. The only think stopping me from proceeding is age.
RE: Oklahoma Legislature passes bill criminalizing abortion - BmorePat87 - 05-22-2016
(05-22-2016, 10:22 AM)bfine32 Wrote: As I have said: folks are just letting their personal views on the matter cloud their look at the governmental function that Oklahoma is exercising.
As to the majority "forcing" their will on the minority: It is a function of Democracy. This November the majority will force their will on the minority
As to the snark: I ask that you go back and look at the beginning of this thread and see if you can determine where it started. Don't start none, won't be none.
Is smoking Marijuana to same thing as having an abortion? No. Is the function for determining the legality of each the same? Yes.
You know I get the original angle you were coming from: laws like these are how pro-life proponents have to challenge Roe v Wade, a decision they find to be immoral and wrong. I get it.
Likewise, I get the other argument: this is a matter of individual choice. As such, when the will of majority is forced on the minority at the costs of their rights, it's in direct violation to a principle of our Constitution: majority rule with minority rights. So while the majority will rule in a democracy, a democracy such as ours that respects the rights of the minority must then act when we have legislation that tries to take those rights away. When the majority votes in November, no rights will be inherently taken away.
Is pot the same as abortions? No. Does legalizing both mean giving citizens the freedom of choice and ownership of their bodies? Yes.