(07-30-2017, 06:17 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: My office is in Raleigh, does that count?

(07-31-2017, 01:43 PM)Vlad Wrote: Yes Trump as "The greatest president to have ever lived" does sound a bit far fetched to say the least doesn't it?

(07-31-2017, 01:43 PM)Vlad Wrote: I'd just though I'd reciprocate all the ridiculous and exaggerated anti Trump remarks with ones 180 degrees the opposite way.

Quote:Bedminster (United States) (AFP) - President Donald Trump said Thursday that he did the US military a "great favor" by banning transgender troops from the armed forces.


Trump, speaking to reporters at his New Jersey country club, said the issue of transgender service members had been "complicated" and "confusing" for the military.

"Look, I have great respect for the (transgender) community," Trump said. "I think I have great support -- or I've had -- great support from that community.

"I got a lot of votes."

But Trump said the issue of transgender troops has been a "very difficult situation" for the US armed forces.

"As you know, it's been a very complicated issue for the military," he said. "It's been a very confusing issue for the military.

"I think I'm doing the military a great favor."

In a series of three tweets last month, Trump upended an Obama-era policy of more than a year that allowed transgender troops to serve openly.

His announcement came with little or no coordination with the Pentagon and landed while Defense Secretary Jim Mattis was on vacation, leaving the astonished department scrambling to come up with a coherent response.

Five transgender women in the US military filed suit against Trump and the Pentagon this week over the ban.

In a lawsuit filed in federal court Wednesday, the five plaintiffs from the Air Force, Coast Guard and the Army said they faced uncertainty about their futures, including whether they would be fired or lose post-military and retirement benefits.

The lawsuit was filed against Trump, Mattis and various other senior military officials by the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR) and GLAAD, a legal advocacy group.

All the unidentified "Jane Doe" plaintiffs were previously men who have transitioned to being female.

The number of transgender troops among America's 1.3 million active duty service members is small, with estimates ranging from between 1,320 and 15,000.

In the two weeks since Trump's tweets, the White House has still not provided the Pentagon with clear directives on how it should implement a transgender ban, so the current policy remains in place for now.

(08-11-2017, 12:42 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: He did the military a favor. You can not have a group of people in the military who have a +40% suicide rate which is unchanged even if they transform.

The military is stressful enough it's a disservice to put suicidal soldiers out there when they have non suicidal soldiers counting on them with their lives.

(08-11-2017, 12:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, he didn't, really. One, because him tweeting about it is not a real policy directive; and two, it is possible this isn't something he can do without Congressional backing. As of right now, all he has done is cause uncertainty and unrest in the ranks of the military with his idea of having a ban but not actually issuing a directive. So it has done harm and no good.

(08-11-2017, 12:42 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: He did the military a favor. You can not have a group of people in the military who have a +40% suicide rate which is unchanged even if they transform.

The military is stressful enough it's a disservice to put suicidal soldiers out there when they have non suicidal soldiers counting on them with their lives.

(08-11-2017, 02:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: All he is doing to giving cover so this can officially be put in place.  They studied it and decided the military isn't the place for social experimentation.   Nor is it a place to put any group, who has a +40% suicide rate even if they are transformed, next to weapons and responsible for the lives of others.

(08-11-2017, 12:42 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: He did the military a favor.   You can not have a group of people in the military who have a +40% suicide rate which is unchanged even if they transform.

The military is stressful enough it's a disservice to put suicidal soldiers out there when they have non suicidal soldiers counting on them with their lives.

(08-11-2017, 02:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: All he is doing to giving cover so this can officially be put in place. They studied it and decided the military isn't the place for social experimentation. Nor is it a place to put any group, who has a +40% suicide rate even if they are transformed, next to weapons and responsible for the lives of others.

(08-11-2017, 03:03 PM)Benton Wrote: I think there's something to be said for looking at the issue if the rate is 40% among military transgenders. Although I've never seen that number before.

That said, military suicide rates are about double civilian suicide rates, so that's an issue that needs looked at, too.

But in regard to transgender suicide rates, it begs a question on if it would be so high if there was more acceptance. We spend a lot of time and money and resources on less than 1% of the population. Less than half a percent by most estimates.All trying to figure out what to do with a group that's just wanting to do their own thing with a negligible negative impact by any measurement. And those resources and time could go a long way to fixing long-standing problems like horrible infrastructure, government waste, healthcare, etc.

Personally, I've known a few transgendered people in my life. In doing some family tree work a year or so ago, I found out my mom's first cousin is transgendered. He got out of the military and went to work as a college professor. If that's not stereotypical enough, she is also living in California. She said she tried to make a go in the Midwest, but in the 80s nobody wanted a transgendered veteran with a degree in accounting.

My wife also worked with one. She was a receptionist in the ER my wife ran. Great employee. She told my wife about her transgenderism right before she left. She said she and her husband moved about every two years because that seemed about when someone found out. And, sure enough, it had been about 18 months after they moved to the area that someone found out and a few started harassing them.

(08-11-2017, 03:44 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: You do realize that statistically speaking that the reason for most of the service members that have committed suicide is not because of their sexual orientation right?  I certainly hope so.

(08-11-2017, 02:30 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You don't have any experience to claim what the military can or cannot have.

Uninformed people claimed the military would have a discipline problem if homosexuals served openly.

The military's discipline is exactly why they didn't have a discipline problem with the end of Don't ask, don't tell.

Their discipline is the reason why they haven't had a discipline problem since the military began accepting transgender individuals.

If a transgender person has the courage to defend your freedom when you can't or won't defend your own freedoms, who the hell are you to deny them the freedom to serve?

(08-11-2017, 04:07 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So we should let anyone in the military even if they have a high likelihood of suicide? Even if you pretend they are the opposite sex.

(08-11-2017, 04:06 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I don't think you understood what I posted.  

Do you want to fight along side and depend on someone who has a 40% More likelihood of suicide?    Are you willing to put your life on the line?  

Or maybe you would prefer the bar be raised.

(08-11-2017, 04:23 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/07/27/transgender-former-seal-team-6-member-asks-trump-to-tell-her-face-to-face-that-shes-not-worthy/





Ban backlash
Transgender former SEAL Team 6 member asks Trump to tell her ‘face to face’ that she’s ‘not worthy’

WITW Staff
07.27.17

Transgender former US Navy Seal Senior Chief Kristin Beck. (NICHOLAS KAMM/AFP/Getty Images)
Former Navy Seal Team 6 member Kristen Beck, who is transgender, spoke out against Trump’s decision to ban transgender people from the military on Wednesday, just a fraction of the tidal wave of opposition that rolled in after Trump’s snap decision on the matter.
“Let’s meet face to face and you tell me I’m not worthy,” Beck said in an interview with Business Insider. “Transgender doesn’t matter. Do your service.”
Trump’s claim that the decision to ban transgender service members came because of the cost of medical services was laughable, Beck added.
“The money is negligible,” said Beck. “You’re talking about .000001 percent of the military budget. They care more about the airplane or the tank than they care about people. They don’t care about people. They don’t care about human beings.” In fact, the cost is so miniscule, The Washington Post reported, that the military actually spends about five times more on Viagra than it does on medical care for transgender troops.
(If you’re wondering why the American military spends so much cash on erectile dysfunction drugs, here’s a handy explainer. Now back to the topic at hand.)
A 20-year veteran of the Navy SEALs, Beck, who was born Christopher Beck, had served with SEAL Teams 1, 5, and 6. Beck was deployed 13 times, served in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and won a Bronze Star for valor and a Purple Heart after being injured in combat.
Asked about whether she thought the transgender ban could be justified on the basis of unit cohesion, Beck said that actual professionals know better than to make such assumptions.
“A very professional unit with great leadership wouldn’t have a problem,” Beck explained. “I can have a Muslim serving right beside Jerry Falwell, and we’re not going to have a problem. It’s a leadership issue, not a transgender issue.”




Ban backlash
Transgender former SEAL Team 6 member asks Trump to tell her ‘face to face’ that she’s ‘not worthy’

WITW Staff
07.27.17

Transgender former US Navy Seal Senior Chief Kristin Beck. (NICHOLAS KAMM/AFP/Getty Images)
Former Navy Seal Team 6 member Kristen Beck, who is transgender, spoke out against Trump’s decision to ban transgender people from the military on Wednesday, just a fraction of the tidal wave of opposition that rolled in after Trump’s snap decision on the matter.
“Let’s meet face to face and you tell me I’m not worthy,” Beck said in an interview with Business Insider. “Transgender doesn’t matter. Do your service.”
Trump’s claim that the decision to ban transgender service members came because of the cost of medical services was laughable, Beck added.
“The money is negligible,” said Beck. “You’re talking about .000001 percent of the military budget. They care more about the airplane or the tank than they care about people. They don’t care about people. They don’t care about human beings.” In fact, the cost is so miniscule, The Washington Post reported, that the military actually spends about five times more on Viagra than it does on medical care for transgender troops.
(If you’re wondering why the American military spends so much cash on erectile dysfunction drugs, here’s a handy explainer. Now back to the topic at hand.)
A 20-year veteran of the Navy SEALs, Beck, who was born Christopher Beck, had served with SEAL Teams 1, 5, and 6. Beck was deployed 13 times, served in Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and won a Bronze Star for valor and a Purple Heart after being injured in combat.
Asked about whether she thought the transgender ban could be justified on the basis of unit cohesion, Beck said that actual professionals know better than to make such assumptions.
“A very professional unit with great leadership wouldn’t have a problem,” Beck explained. “I can have a Muslim serving right beside Jerry Falwell, and we’re not going to have a problem. It’s a leadership issue, not a transgender issue.”

(08-11-2017, 04:28 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Professionalism. It's as simple as that one word.

Some people don't, can't, and/or won't understand.

(08-11-2017, 04:34 PM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: Like she says above "it's a leadership issue not a transgender issue".  I absolutely agree.

(08-12-2017, 05:03 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So we should allow people who suffer from high suicide rates into the military?   Shouldn't we be concerned if they are one of the 4 out of 10 who will kill themselves?    Soldiers already have enough stress....  if 4 out of 10 are coming in likely to commit suicide then how much will that grow once under the stress of being a soldier?   And it's expensive to train a soldier..... why are we investing in people with such a high suicide rate coming through the door?      

Take out the transgender part of this and let's look at if this is a good investment of our time and resources on people who are likely to kill themselves.