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Trump-Biden Debates set - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: { All Things Biden & Trump } (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-All-Things-Biden-Trump) +---- Thread: Trump-Biden Debates set (/Thread-Trump-Biden-Debates-set) |
RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - FormerlyBengalRugby - 05-21-2024 (05-21-2024, 07:48 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I don't see the calling and telling him to find the votes a big deal, more like it was taken out of context. Joe Biden has bragged about doing worse. Heck, he talks and it just gets worse. DJT is likely dirty, but when the sheep turn a blind eye to Joe Biden. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - hollodero - 05-21-2024 (05-21-2024, 08:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: And coming from a guy that was on his last straws looking for a break? or hoping there was an error somewhere? Yeah so if it is close, you have all legal rights to demand a recount, and/or to go to court with all evidence of errors or misdeeds, these are the avenues to take. The avenue a president can absolutely not take is to just demand to find him the exact number of votes to win. That can not be excused with not trusting the ballot counts or anything. It is ordering a win, plain and simple. How does being on his last straw even factor into it? Hillary was on her last straw in 2016 too, would that have made it ok for her to call state secretaries and demand they find her the exact number of votes to win their state? Because again, I feel you're making arguments that you would absolutely not accept if the other side made them in a similar circumstance. (05-21-2024, 08:14 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Legal or not matters most, but do you really expect a guy like Trump to not find a gray area and push it? I think it was a bad move, but Trump is Trump and he's a sore loser. It's his nature. Oh of course I expected him to. That does not remotely make it ok though, nor does the argument of "that's his nature". I have never heard anyone successfully defend himself by making this claim after a wrongdoing. I mean, what if Hillary had said yeah I run a private server and send classified mails through it, but I'm Hillary and I'm careless, that's just my nature, so get off my back? (And yeah, what she said was possibly not that far removed from that, but I guess we both agree that it was and is an inacceptable defense.) That you care about legality above all else in the case of electors, imho, is a bit strange. I'm fairly certain it was never the idea of the founders to allow for alternate electors in an obvious betrayal of the state's voters, even if states failed to codify that in the possible belief that no serious person would ever explore that avenue. I mean, fake electors are obviously not the right thing to do, I don't need a court's judgment for that general determination. Then again, you did say it was a bad move, I guess I take what I can get. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - NATI BENGALS - 05-21-2024 (05-21-2024, 07:36 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/senate-democrats-revive-bipartisan-border-security-bill-gop-vows-block-rcna153045 Ok. So it’s still a bipartisan bill. Republicans just aren’t done playing politics with their favorite problem. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - Mike M (the other one) - 05-21-2024 (05-21-2024, 08:42 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah so if it is close, you have all legal rights to demand a recount, and/or to go to court with all evidence of errors or misdeeds, these are the avenues to take. The avenue a president can absolutely not take is to just demand to find him the exact number of votes to win. That can not be excused with not trusting the ballot counts or anything. It is ordering a win, plain and simple. I think it was a poor thing to do. It's a tricky spot for sure and doesn't look very good. If he did have the votes, would we even be discussing it still? as far as the Founders? Well that's fair but there is also alot of loose interpretation of what was written. Right now we have Dems pushing the envelope in Alabama and Ohio to get Biden on the ballot. Why? The rules didn't change, but they still think they are above that. Alabama had to re-write the law to get Biden on the ballot, and now Ohio is having to do the same. Now my question is, If this was Kennedy or another 3rd Party candidate, would they still do the same to make sure he's on the ballot? Likely not, they would just say follow the rules. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - Mike M (the other one) - 05-21-2024 (05-21-2024, 09:31 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Ok. So it’s still a bipartisan bill. and it's the same bill that I looked at and was crap, it does nothing to fix the problem long term, even if the numbers are exceeded and the POTUS says no more allowed, it's not really like that, they are still mandated t allow a certain number in, and the number of days they can close reduces to zero by the 3rd or 4th year, which puts us right back where we are today. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - NATI BENGALS - 05-22-2024 (05-21-2024, 10:20 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: and it's the same bill that I looked at and was crap, it does nothing to fix the problem long term, even if the numbers are exceeded and the POTUS says no more allowed, it's not really like that, they are still mandated t allow a certain number in, and the number of days they can close reduces to zero by the 3rd or 4th year, which puts us right back where we are today. I’d bet money it would be better for us than doing nothing. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - hollodero - 05-22-2024 (05-21-2024, 09:47 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I think it was a poor thing to do. It's a tricky spot for sure and doesn't look very good. If he did have the votes, would we even be discussing it still? Well... let me say, I have a hard time believing you feel 100% comfortable with these arguments. A lot of loose interpretation? Well, this often is true and imho part of the problem at times, but we're talking about fake elector schemes here. Like say the state of Arizona falling for Trump in a fair 2024 election without any proof of tampering - and then have the democratic-led state say, well, we do not respect this result and send alternate electors to Washington, ones that would vote for Biden in the EC instead. Or Biden pressuring Kamala Harris to disobey her constitutional duty and not certify the election because of alternate electors or completely unproven claims of massive election fraud. I mean, all that can not be within the realms of a loose interpretation, this can only be clearly wrong. If not legally, then morally, and not least for democracy itself. And that's not even mentioning all the violence and folks bringing gallows for Kamala if she does not comply, the real ugliness of it all. Same goes for pressuring state secretaries to find Trump, or Biden, the exact number of votes to win a state he actually lost. No matter how the actual votes add up in the end, a president just can not do that and imho that is not and can not be a partisan issue. Have you ever heard the phone call in full? It's something real and unaltered within all the media noise. Btw. I don't say all that to deter you from voting for Trump or to scold you for it or anything like that. I get that, and I get you feel there's no danger and I hope you're right. It's just, there might come the point where it's up to folks like you, reasonable conservatives, to put a stop to it if need be, no one else can. That's why I would say, just don't be delusional about Trump or folks like Trump and what they really are and thrive to be, that would be my request. I feel your vigilance is needed. (05-21-2024, 09:47 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Right now we have Dems pushing the envelope in Alabama and Ohio to get Biden on the ballot. Why? The rules didn't change, but they still think they are above that. Alabama had to re-write the law to get Biden on the ballot, and now Ohio is having to do the same. I have to say, I think it's good that both candidates are on the ballot on every state. Should the citizens of Alabama and Ohio really have no effective choice at all, because of some legislative issues that are not their fault? And btw. same goes for Colorado too. And of course they would not do the same for Kennedy. I'd even be more cynical and claim they might start contemplating it as soon as he's predicted to take more votes from Trump than from Biden. I mean, I don't try to hide it, I quite dislike the democratic party too, I think they're at fault for many things and nothing I say I say on their behalf. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - pally - 05-22-2024 (05-21-2024, 08:15 PM)FormerlyBengalRugby Wrote: Joe Biden has bragged about doing worse. Just curious… What is worse than using illegal electors in an attempt to overturn an election that he lost? Republicans have been trying for 4 years to pin dirt on Joe Biden. So far they have zilch RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - GMDino - 05-22-2024 (05-22-2024, 08:16 AM)pally Wrote: Just curious… The answer is anything Democrats did because: 1) It wasn't fair. 2) He doesn't really follow it..or 3) You have TDS!!!1!!!11!!! RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - Dill - 05-22-2024 (05-21-2024, 03:23 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: So? No idea what the links are meant to prove. They demonstrate that many Democrats think current laws regarding bail discriminate against poor people. So more Dem attempts to make justice apply equally to all citizens. Relevance to this discussion? And there is an ATTEMPT to hold Trump accountable. But it's not easy when he has appointed many of the judges who control his prosecution and he has a regime party behind him. E.g, The Republican Georgia governor has signed into law a newly passed bill by the Republican legislature which allows them to remove state prosecutors from office. That should be disturbing to those who thought "Well, even if he's president he won't be able to stop prosecution or pardon himself from conviction in state courts." He may not have to. It is still a real possibility that he could be elected president and squash all prosecution--in part because enough voters would be ok with trashing rule of law. The latter is the real problem. Millions of voters now don't know what rule of law is, and so can't tell whether Trump has violated it, or they don't care; they want their Dear Leader anyway. To stop the far left fascist communists Trump warned them about. And that is just a jaw-dropping upending of our justice system--a leader who attempted a coup back in power with the blessing of millions. In part because he convinced them, against all evidence, that the election which ousted him was 'rigged." No US leader has ever had such direct control over so many million minds, that he can convince them of his innocence against the evidence of their own eyes. If Trump gets off, it would not be the first time that the Right has successfully crushed the judicial system to preserve its own. ' RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - Dill - 05-22-2024 (05-21-2024, 09:47 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I think it was a poor thing to do. It's a tricky spot for sure and doesn't look very good. If he did have the votes, would we even be discussing it still? It might not be the job of the Dem party to make sure a 3rd party candidate was on the ballot. How is getting Biden on the ballot in Alabama or Ohio "pushing the envelope"? What are they "above"? RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - pally - 05-22-2024 (05-21-2024, 09:47 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I think it was a poor thing to do. It's a tricky spot for sure and doesn't look very good. If he did have the votes, would we even be discussing it still? both states have routinely done so before for candidates for BOTH parties. This isn't a new thing except now because of the political atmosphere, the Republican state houses are playing games RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - Mike M (the other one) - 05-22-2024 (05-22-2024, 02:26 PM)Dill Wrote: It might not be the job of the Dem party to make sure a 3rd party candidate was on the ballot. With your thinking, it's not the Job of the R's to make sure a D candidate is on the ballot? (05-22-2024, 06:17 PM)pally Wrote: both states have routinely done so before for candidates for BOTH parties. This isn't a new thing except now because of the political atmosphere, the Republican state houses are playing games The Deadlines haven't changed, it's not that hard to follow the rules is it? RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - pally - 05-23-2024 (05-22-2024, 09:33 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: With your thinking, it's not the Job of the R's to make sure a D candidate is on the ballot? The deadline was waived in 2016 and 2020 for Donald Trump to get on these 2 ballots It’s not that hard to follow the rules is it? it is a requirement that has been routinely waive. And it will likely happen against once they stop being jerks. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - Mike M (the other one) - 05-23-2024 (05-22-2024, 07:03 AM)hollodero Wrote: Well... let me say, I have a hard time believing you feel 100% comfortable with these arguments. A lot of loose interpretation? Well, this often is true and imho part of the problem at times, but we're talking about fake elector schemes here. Like say the state of Arizona falling for Trump in a fair 2024 election without any proof of tampering - and then have the democratic-led state say, well, we do not respect this result and send alternate electors to Washington, ones that would vote for Biden in the EC instead. Or Biden pressuring Kamala Harris to disobey her constitutional duty and not certify the election because of alternate electors or completely unproven claims of massive election fraud. I mean, all that can not be within the realms of a loose interpretation, this can only be clearly wrong. If not legally, then morally, and not least for democracy itself. And that's not even mentioning all the violence and folks bringing gallows for Kamala if she does not comply, the real ugliness of it all. No, I'm not 100% fine with it, but in my eyes it's Politics, this is what happens when the 2 ruling parties refuse to work with each other over the simplest of things. So it's not a surprise that one or both will resort to this type of behavior. I'm just waiting to see what's next. I'm not worried about Trump, he's easy to predict what he will do. (05-22-2024, 07:03 AM)hollodero Wrote: I have to say, I think it's good that both candidates are on the ballot on every state. Should the citizens of Alabama and Ohio really have no effective choice at all, because of some legislative issues that are not their fault? And btw. same goes for Colorado too. I agree it shouldn't be an issue and the candidate from both parties should be on all ballots, but they are making it one by not complying with Deadlines that are Pre-set, they don't change. Another point, if they wouldn't do it for Kennedy then why should they expect it to be done for them? You know, treat everyone the same follow the rules and so on and i dont' care if an R misses the deadline, tough shit. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - Mike M (the other one) - 05-23-2024 (05-23-2024, 12:39 AM)pally Wrote: The deadline was waived in 2016 and 2020 for Donald Trump to get on these 2 ballots Which two states, quite hard to find. But this particular cycle, Several D states decided to BAN Trump from the ballots, or did you conveniently forget that? RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - pally - 05-23-2024 Alabama and Ohio, the 2 states with the 90 day requirement. Is Trump going to be on the ballot in all 50 states? RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - GMDino - 05-23-2024 (05-23-2024, 01:00 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Which two states, quite hard to find. Well, while Trump appears squeaky clean in all of his dealings, they thought he *may* have had a small bit to do with January 6th and were trying to follow their interpretation of the Constitution. The SC said no. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - hollodero - 05-23-2024 (05-23-2024, 12:54 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I agree it shouldn't be an issue and the candidate from both parties should be on all ballots, but they are making it one by not complying with Deadlines that are Pre-set, they don't change. I don't know the details, so you might just be right. Not gonna lie though, I find this whole point not to be all that important. And if it were Trump missing a deadline, I also would not insist he'd be kept off the ballot now. That is punishing the wrong people, meaning the people that want to vote for him. Even if the responsible party would deserve this outcome, these people certainly would not. Not to mention they'd be understandably pretty angry about it, and imho the country has more than enough of this emotion already. RE: Trump-Biden Debates set - GMDino - 05-23-2024 Well... https://meidasnews.com/news/ohio-moving-to-exclude-biden-from-ballot Quote:Ohio Moving to Exclude Biden from Ballot |