(04-23-2016, 06:28 PM)Benton Wrote: The wtc had been subsidized for years. That's all it was, a giant tax write off. The asbestos removal would've been paid for by taxpayers.

(04-24-2016, 03:39 PM)Beaker Wrote: This thread died out rather quickly. Must have been a conspiracy to silence DA from revealing the truth to the blissfully unaware masses.

(04-22-2016, 02:58 PM)Benton Wrote: ACE was in charge of updating the elevator system. State-of-the-art 30 years earlier was horribly out-of-date for building codes. If I'm remembering, part of ACE's job was to install safety locks on elevators so people couldn't open the doors.

ACE went out of business after USA Today did a story on how the locks might have led to more deaths (not really ACE's fault, they were just hired to do the job to code), and how a crew there working that day fled the building instead of hanging around to try and help people. Remember, this is 2001 and anyone who wasn't waving a flag or wearing a NYFD shirt was considered a terrorist... so having maintenance guys who actually ran from the buildings instead of staying to help firefighters probably went over as well as Jesse Jackson handing out bumper stickers at a Klan rally.


I just don't see how anyone can think this plan goes back to the 1980s when Larry Silverstein who didn't yet own the building decided he needed to start a fake elevator company so that in 20 years he could place explosives in the WTC, then purchase it, then hire some guys to hijack a plane and kill themselves for the insurance money... which wouldn't have paid what it cost to operate an elevator company for 30 years with 100-200 employees. I get the long game, but damn, that would be the worst plan in history.

(04-22-2016, 06:04 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: And keep them all quiet.  My problem with the whole thing, and yes, I said I wasn't coming back in here, is this.  The amount of people that would have been involved in this CT would number in the hundreds, cross political party lines, and even other governments.  I say there is NO WAY that somebody who was directly involved wouldn't have talked.  

(04-24-2016, 04:15 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Well I'm here to tell you that there's several ways to keep a secret. The military and congress do it all the time. 

(04-24-2016, 04:19 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: There are no political lines. They're all buddies with each other. 

(04-22-2016, 11:04 PM)Beaker Wrote: No its not. Its a classic case of making something fit a narrative after the fact. You could do the same thing by saying something like "looking at visitor sign in logs showed that lots of muslims visited the towers in the two years leading up to the attack, that was plenty of opportunity for them to plant explosives". That's how ridiculous the whole elevator service company as evidence speculation is. Not to mention how stupid the whole inside job speculation is.

(04-24-2016, 04:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Like what?

(04-24-2016, 04:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Businesses would not give up millions of hard earned dollars to back one candidate over another if they were all working together.

(04-24-2016, 05:58 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Until any of you present something new ... hell, present anything, that debunks what I've posed, I'll consider the point of ACE elevator company A solid victory for conspiracy analysts. 

I will not address ad hominems or Strawman again concerning this point of ACE elevator company. As Sgt Joe Friday famously said 'Just the facts ma'am'. So, piss or get off the pot. 

(04-24-2016, 06:30 PM)Beaker Wrote: The only "fact" you posted is that one elevator company outbid another and got a big job, and then claimed that's evidence for conspiracy. And BTW....you did exactly what I claimed....you made the facts attempt to fit the narrative you wish to spin on it in hindsight.

(04-24-2016, 06:32 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: I'm getting outta' this thread.  No offense DA, but you're nuts.  

(04-24-2016, 07:24 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Fact 1) ACE  takes over elevator operations, despite being unknown, of the most prestigious elevator system in the world. 

Fact: Lesser known companies often underbid more established companies in an effort to win bids and establish themselves.

Fact 2) ACE  barely has any publicity, advertisement or offices or a got damn web page. 

Fact: So what. Again, less established companies will often spend their limited budget on things like tools and alaries rather than marketing.

Fact 3) ACE employees withdraw from scene, despite safety regulations requiring them to be on scene to help with,  you know, the elevators in case of emergency. 

When? The whole time they had the contract, or during the attacks? Because nobody really stayed around then.

Fact 4) Despite a large insurance settlement which presumably paid ACE, they file bankruptcy listing some few hundred thousands in assets but millions in debt. 

Fact: A company existing on the revenue of a few large contracts can go belly up when someone blows up their building.

Fact 5) the company that invented the got damn elevator had the contract, exemplified a willingness to support emergency response in 1993, but lost lost the contract less than 1 year later to again, an unknown company. 

Fact: Explained by fact 1.

Fact 6)the core supports of the the WTC were guess where? Yes in the elevator shafts. 

Fact: The core supports were not in the elevator shafts, they were centrally located in the building as were the elevators.

Fact 7) workers and tenants complained of elevators being down in months leading up to 9/11

Fact: People always complain during construction work/renovations since it tends to be an inconvenience.

Fact 8)despite the word 'elevator' being mentioned countless times in the OS, 'ACE' is nowhere to be found

I have no idea why you think the wording of this has any relevance as evidence of conspiracy.

Fact 9)It is extremely difficult to find any info about this company. 

Fact: No publicity, website, advertising or offices will make it more difficult.

Fact 10)credible eyewitnesses report hearing explosions. 

Fact: Loud noises do not equal explosions. Eyewitnesses have been proven wrong quite frequently during testimony.

Fact 11)gravity does not send debri flying 100+ yards away

Fact: Yes it does when you combine it with lateral force such as a plane slamming into it and you start from hundreds of feet high. Its called projectile motion.

Fact 12)the buildings fell at (near) free fall speed into their own footprint. 

Fact: In Fact 11 you said the debris fell 100+ yards away, now you say own footprint. But regardless, falling objects will accelerate at 9.8 m/s2 as they fall, and yes, gravity will do that.

I can go on and on ...

As can I, showing how each of your "facts" is either wrong, or no evidence of conspiracy.

(04-24-2016, 07:26 PM)Devils Advocate Wrote: Well, this is where the big boys play so ...

(04-24-2016, 09:34 PM)Tiger Teeth Wrote: Well.  I guess I'm not as big of a boy as you.  This response sorta' dissolves your "song" post.  But that's alright, live your life looking over your shoulder.