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+---- Thread: Decency, Trump and Obama. (/Thread-Decency-Trump-and-Obama)
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - bfine32 - 03-11-2017
(03-10-2017, 07:46 PM)Dill Wrote: 1) I don't remember anyone but Trumpsters saying it would be a good thing to make career politicians uncomfortable, but I doubt many think it a good thing to make career politicians uncomfortable by undermining the US intelligence services, including the majority of Fox News commentators.
2) The stock market has responded somewhat to continued good employment news and perhaps the hope of more financial deregulation. What is that a sign of to you?
3) A child driving an 18 wheeler would make career truckers "uncomfortable", along with most normal drivers. Some, though, would love to watch folks' heads explode as the kid's truck careens down the highway. He hasn't hit anyone yet.
4) But you don't seem to think Trump is a child, or especially incompetent, or perhaps even if he is, a president really isn't in position to do much damage to foreign or domestic policy.
1) I'll take you at your word that you've only heard Trump supporters saying they would like to see a shake up in the cronyism in Washington
2) Those are signs of a strong economy and go directly counter to an earlier claim from you about what stupid comments from POTUS can do to them
3) As would a 90 year old that has lost all reflexes; however, the kid can learn with experience unless the normal drivers keep screaming get him off the road instead of mentoring him
4) I've always said the power of POTUS is limited by design. Good old checks and balances
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - hollodero - 03-12-2017
(03-11-2017, 03:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: 3) As would a 90 year old that has lost all reflexes; however, the kid can learn with experience unless the normal drivers keep screaming get him off the road instead of mentoring him
Mentoring a 70-year-oold life-long narcissist that, if any, only listens to Bannon.. hmm. Cool project. But whatever.
I said it once already, replacing Obama with Trump is like replacing Marvin Lewis with me. Sure, I might not know anything about coaching a football team, I will take colossal losses, draft crappy players and throw some fits against my predecessor and the world itself afterwards, but hey - new style! Just call it refreshing. And I can learn on the job and get better, as long as Bengals fans refrain from demanding my dismissal, don't buy into the fake results and stay open-minded and constructive. Who knows, in 8 years I might even win a game. Or two, if you don't grow tired of so much winning.
So why not give me a shot?
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - bfine32 - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 02:46 AM)hollodero Wrote: Mentoring a 70-year-oold life-long narcissist that, if any, only listens to Bannon.. hmm. Cool project. But whatever.
I said it once already, replacing Obama with Trump is like replacing Marvin Lewis with me. Sure, I might not know anything about coaching a football team, I will take colossal losses, draft crappy players and throw some fits against my predecessor and the world itself afterwards, but hey - new style! Just call it refreshing. And I can learn on the job and get better, as long as Bengals fans refrain from demanding my dismissal, don't buy into the fake results and stay open-minded and constructive. Who knows, in 8 years I might even win a game. Or two, if you don't grow tired of so much winning.
So why not give me a shot?
Except Trump wasn't hired, he was elected.
I'll say it for the irst time, bytching about Trump everyday of his first 51 days on the job and demanding his removal is like that entitled fan that always thinks he knows what is best. Screw what the electoral system this Nation has used for 100s of years determined, screw that the economy is doing fine, screw that he is putting our Nation first, screw that he is working to make healthcare more affordable for Americans. He does it differently that it has been done in the past, so I know he needs to go. Plus I don't like him.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - hollodero - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 09:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Except Trump wasn't hired, he was elected.
I'll say it for the irst time, bytching about Trump everyday of his first 51 days on the job and demanding his removal is like that entitled fan that always thinks he knows what is best. Screw what the electoral system this Nation has used for 100s of years determined, screw that the economy is doing fine, screw that he is putting our Nation first, screw that he is working to make healthcare more affordable for Americans. He does it differently that it has been done in the past, so I know he needs to go. Plus I don't like him.
Yeah yeah yeah. In this case, I just wanted to have a little fun, and it worked, for I did. That Trump puts America first has yet to be determined though, the new healthcare plan is a step away from the system every, and I mean every other richer western country uses to grant every citizen basic coverage, but whatever.
He doesn't things differently, but worse, he listens to a darkness is good apologete, has a cabinet full of figures with dubious connections to Russia Turkey or God knows who, he doesn't respect the system, the checks and balances or anything, showed blatant disrespect to other institutions, he estrangens world leaders, sees things (like multitudes) that just aren't there, believes what's put on Breitbart or on Infowars, called other media enemy of the people and other presidents sick guys, lies multiple times more than any other politician, is obviously intellectually limited, slams businesses that don't sell daughter stuff, broke his word on tax returns, still has ties to his businesses, wants to spend vast sums of money with no plan to raise said money whatsoever, oh and he used to question Obama's legitimacy ever single living hour for the past years, he sure is "different", so hell yeah, I bytch about that every time that I effing please and it's perfectly fine to do so. And please do not underestimate that I REALLY don't like this guy
for he's also an unrestrained braggart, a misogynist, threatened his opponent with jailtime or with "second amendment guys", goes after muslim gold star wifes, [...], and since it was never mentioned he used to invent fake employees as which he himself called media outlets to brag about himself, which alone is the most sad and mentally unstable thing. On the plus side, he got elected. Which is to be respected, I already said that, my calling for his removal was based on a deed that would every other western politician get removed. I don't bytch around repeating this call, I bytch around for there are still people who support that guy, which is astonishing to me.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2017
(03-06-2017, 12:04 PM)Griever Wrote: his admin stopped the overtime pay bill that would have given salary people more money because they tend to work more than 40 hours
Fake info Griever
That was stopped in December a month before Trump took office
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2017
(03-07-2017, 05:49 PM)Griever Wrote: if Bill Clinton lying about a blowjob was an impeachable offense...
Clinton lied under oath
Trump's tweet may or may not be 100% accurate, but who cares not under oath
Obama stated thousands of times if you want your doctor you keep your doctor and how about the Jude lie of every family will save $2500 with Obamacare and they lost $3000 and rising more
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Belsnickel - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 03:19 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Fake info Griever
That was stopped in December a month before Trump took office
If I recall correctly, the action was stopped by the court as it was hashed out in the judiciary. Now that the administration has changed, the action will die in the courts because they won't defend it
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Dill - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 09:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Except Trump wasn't hired, he was elected.
I'll say it for the irst time, bytching about Trump everyday of his first 51 days on the job and demanding his removal is like that entitled fan that always thinks he knows what is best. Screw what the electoral system this Nation has used for 100s of years determined, screw that the economy is doing fine, screw that he is putting our Nation first, screw that he is working to make healthcare more affordable for Americans. He does it differently that it has been done in the past, so I know he needs to go. Plus I don't like him.
Unlike a pro coaching staff, Trump was elected you say.
Then after disqualifying the coach analogy, you continue it, dissing sports fans who think they know what is best and would remove the coach.
The "fans" in this case would be voters, right? The fans/voters who elected Trump certainly thought they knew best. Now we have a coach who replaces a professional coaching staff with his friends who have no coaching experience because that's what (some) fans want.
Trump has certainly done it "differently" his first two months. For those who go by what Trump does, it has been an unbroken series of gaffs, scandals, and policy failures.
For those who go by what Trump says, he is putting America first and creating the best healthcare plan ever and protecting the US from countries which have never perpetrated a terror attack on the US.
Screw that the guy lost the popular vote and was helped to an electoral victory by an authoritarian foreign power which he cannot bring himself to criticize.
Screw that this is still Obama's economy.
Screw that Trump has no healthcare plan; his is Paul Ryan's plan, which will raise costs and cut taxes on the rich.
Screw that he has publicly likened the intel community to Nazi's and accused the previous president of wiretapping him and accused the opposing party of padding its vote total with 3-5 million illegal votes.
Screw that he is disabling the State Dept. with budget cuts, firings, and resignations.
Screw that he tried to ram through an executive order without following protocol--which led to his firing the acting AG and a shut down in the courts.
Screw that he insults allies and trading partners.
No more "bitching" until he's had a chance to show what he can do!
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Dill - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 03:03 PM)hollodero Wrote: He doesn't things differently, but worse, he listens to a darkness is good apologete, has a cabinet full of figures with dubious connections to Russia Turkey or God knows who, he doesn't respect the system, the checks and balances or anything, showed blatant disrespect to other institutions, he estrangens world leaders, sees things (like multitudes) that just aren't there, believes what's put on Breitbart or on Infowars, called other media enemy of the people and other presidents sick guys, lies multiple times more than any other politician, is obviously intellectually limited, slams businesses that don't sell daughter stuff, broke his word on tax returns, still has ties to his businesses, wants to spend vast sums of money with no plan to raise said money whatsoever, oh and he used to question Obama's legitimacy ever single living hour for the past years, he sure is "different", so hell yeah, I bytch about that every time that I effing please
But you have admit, Hollo, "worse" IS different. So Bfine has a point.
Once you see the equivalence, then you can say that botching an executive order by ignoring the constitution and protocol is a different style. So it is Trump's style that all these liberals are criticizing when they point out that the State Dept. will no longer be able to function under his proposed budget cuts, or that he is "shaking up Washington" when he falsely accuses the previous president of a felony.
Many of the points you make above aren't really points to Trump supporters. If they get their conspiracy news from Breitbart and Infowars, then it is hardly a knock against the Commander-in-chief that he prefers those sources to professional intelligence services and their boring, carefully vetted, analyzed and cross-examined intel product. Why would foreign policy and spec ops be any different or any worse if based on Breitbart? And even if it is worse, how does that affect us at home?
Trump supporters like Trump's entrepreneur daughter. Now they think you don't. And they don't care if she sits in on high level talks with world leaders, and they don't care if he insults those leaders. He is letting them know that America is first now.
Instead of treating allies and trading partners who deal fairly with us as equals--LET'S STAND UP TO THEM! Let them know that American is not messing around. We mean business. The world is on notice. (This includes you, Austria! We see you there hiding behind the Swiss Alps!) If our Allies and partners don't like that, there is nothing they can do about it.
It is great that Trump has all these business interests. That means he knows how to cut a deal and pick the right team to get the job done. If only the press would get off his back, he would get more done.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - bfine32 - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 07:32 PM)Dill Wrote: Unlike a pro coaching staff, Trump was elected you say.
Then after disqualifying the coach analogy, you continue it, dissing sports fans who think they know what is best and would remove the coach.
The "fans" in this case would be voters, right? The fans/voters who elected Trump certainly thought they knew best. Now we have a coach who replaces a professional coaching staff with his friends who have no coaching experience because that's what (some) fans want.
Trump has certainly done it "differently" his first two months. For those who go by what Trump does, it has been an unbroken series of gaffs, scandals, and policy failures.
For those who go by what Trump says, he is putting America first and creating the best healthcare plan ever and protecting the US from countries which have never perpetrated a terror attack on the US.
1) Screw that the guy lost the popular vote and was helped to an electoral victory by an authoritarian foreign power which he cannot bring himself to criticize.
2) Screw that this is still Obama's economy.
3) Screw that Trump has no healthcare plan; his is Paul Ryan's plan, which will raise costs and cut taxes on the rich.
4) Screw that he has publicly likened the intel community to Nazi's and accused the previous president of wiretapping him and accused the opposing party of padding its vote total with 3-5 million illegal votes.
5) Screw that he is disabling the State Dept. with budget cuts, firings, and resignations.
6) Screw that he tried to ram through an executive order without following protocol--which led to his firing the acting AG and a shut down in the courts.
7) Screw that he insults allies and trading partners.
8) No more "bitching" until he's had a chance to show what he can do!
I get that you are mad, but you gotta stop with the double standard. It's too early to give him credit for the economy , but it's time enough to give him a failing grade.
1) What did an authoritarian foreign power do to help him to a victory (It is a victory you can save the popular vote talk for someone who doesn't know how it works). Apparently this help you speak of only applied to the EC
2) It is not Obama's economy
3) If his people are working on a plan then I really don't see the difference; apparently, you only give him credit if he does it solo
4) You have no idea if Obama ordered him to be wire-tapped or not nor do you have an accurate count of voter fraud
5) Cuts have to come from somewhere unless you want him to do to the debt what has been done the past 8 years
6) Some folks might give him credit for trying to fulfill his promises; of course no those that disagree with them
7) I agree. I don't care what trading partner he "insults". Hope he doesn't insult Mexico to such a degree that they pull out od NAFTA
8) Nobody ever accused you of approaching it with an open mind. 50 days is plenty time (unless you want to give him credit for the good things of course)
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 09:06 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Except Trump wasn't hired, he was elected.
I'll say it for the irst time, bytching about Trump everyday of his first 51 days on the job and demanding his removal is like that entitled fan that always thinks he knows what is best. Screw what the electoral system this Nation has used for 100s of years determined, screw that the economy is doing fine, screw that he is putting our Nation first, screw that he is working to make healthcare more affordable for Americans. He does it differently that it has been done in the past, so I know he needs to go. Plus I don't like him.
Questioning the integrity of all of our own intelligence and security agencies is not putting the nation first.
Accusing Obama of tapping his phones is not putting the nation first.
Undermining the integrity of the CBO for partisan reasons is not putting the nation first.
Calling the media the enemy of the people is not putting the nation first.
The Obamacare repeal and replace legislation doesn't affect the price you or I pay for health insurance. Like Obamacare, it doesn't control the cost of healthcare.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - hollodero - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 08:11 PM)Dill Wrote: But you have admit, Hollo, "worse" IS different. So Bfine has a point.
True.
(03-12-2017, 08:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Many of the points you make above aren't really points to Trump supporters. If they get their conspiracy news from Breitbart and Infowars, then it is hardly a knock against the Commander-in-chief that he prefers those sources to professional intelligence services and their boring, carefully vetted, analyzed and cross-examined intel product. Why would foreign policy and spec ops be any different or any worse if based on Breitbart? And even if it is worse, how does that affect us at home?
I know a bunch about pure alt-right supporters (never forget, we Austrians more or less are patient zero) and mainly see them as lost causes. Fortunately they are not the complete voter base, though. And no matter how different you look at things than bfine (and michaelsean, MikeM, JustWinBaby and some others I now forget), I guess you need to give them a bit more credit - like I do. Say what you want, but bfine is not getting his infos solely from Breitbart and I guess doesn't take Alex Jones seriously. Those people are plainly too intelligent for that. Denying that and throwing everyone in one alt-right pot isn't helpful, it just deepens the trenches and more and more "moderates" (meaning not alt-rightist Bannon fans) get lost. I know for I saw that happening. (In the end the alt-right governing disaster helped bringing them back here, only to forget all too quickly. I guess it will happen in the US too and Trump won't get reelected - but then again, it depends on how estranged people get.)
Now US-specifically speaking, they need to claim their party back from the hostile alt-right takeover, I said that often, but it's true. They are the ones who lost the election too, they just don't realize it yet. The die-hard Trumpist is not adressed. The point gets lost often, not least because of my own affection to satyre and exaggeration, in opposition; kind of a fallback into mere anti-liberal (or mere anti-conservative) argueing patterns and bickering. We're all sometimes guilty of that. But in the end, "we" often only get "them" to throw their goggles back on. Which results in fevereshly forging arguments to deny what is really clearly open for everyone to see about Trump. We would keep repeating ourselves if I would point out what I mean.
(03-12-2017, 08:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Trump supporters like Trump's entrepreneur daughter. Now they think you don't. And they don't care if she sits in on high level talks with world leaders, and they don't care if he insults those leaders. He is letting them know that America is first now.
Oh I do like her. It's probably because I can be quite shallow... I don't need to hear her talk for that, it probably helps if I don't. But that's one of the few things where I agree with Trump. She is indeed how he described her, of course in a manner no father should ever describe his daughter. No real point there, just sheer shallowness, talk about sun's corona.
(03-12-2017, 08:11 PM)Dill Wrote: Instead of treating allies and trading partners who deal fairly with us as equals--LET'S STAND UP TO THEM! Let them know that American is not messing around. We mean business. The world is on notice. (This includes you, Austria! We see you there hiding behind the Swiss Alps!) If our Allies and partners don't like that, there is nothing they can do about it.
Hm yeah, I was quite surprised when Trump claimed every country takes advantage of you, including mine, obviously. Really, we played you? I was so proud.
In general, we don't see you as equals. We see you as superior. If there's anything good for Europe, than maybe that we learn to get rid of that thought and start standing on our own feet more. Politically, militarily, culturally. I'd appreciate that.
Plus, we don't hide behind Swiss Alps, we have Alps of our own to hide behind. We hide behind the fact that we get mistaken for Australia.
Oh btw. have you noticed who Trump wants to appoint as Austrian ambassador? A guy whose qualification consists of having seen "Sound of Music" over 70 times. Boy, this guy will be disappointed.
-- Sorry for leaving some parts out.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 04:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: If I recall correctly, the action was stopped by the court as it was hashed out in the judiciary. Now that the administration has changed, the action will die in the courts because they won't defend it
That is correct
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 08:53 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Questioning the integrity of all of our own intelligence and security agencies is not putting the nation first.
Accusing Obama of tapping his phones is not putting the nation first.
Undermining the integrity of the CBO for partisan reasons is not putting the nation first.
Calling the media the enemy of the people is not putting the nation first.
The Obamacare repeal and replace legislation doesn't affect the price you or I pay for health insurance. Like Obamacare, it doesn't control the cost of healthcare.
President Trump is following the worst 2 term POTU ever. He divided the country, weakened our military, lied to us to promote a social program everyone with a brain knew would drive up costs for healthcare especially for the middle class.
We all know Obama sucked, lets see what the new guy can do the next 8 years before we roast his Presidency.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 09:41 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: President Trump is following the worst 2 term POTU ever. He divided the country, weakened our military, lied to us to promote a social program everyone with a brain knew would drive up costs for healthcare especially for the middle class.
We all know Obama sucked, lets see what the new guy can do the next 8 years before we roast his Presidency.
Please explain how Obama weakened the military. In excruciating detail if you don't mind.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Luvnit2 - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 09:55 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Please explain how Obama weakened the military. In excruciating detail if you don't mind.
Simple by not spending to upgrade equipment and his apologetic no fight attitude. Add in he allowed Hillary to sell the Russians enough uranium to nuke us. Now you tell us why you think he did anything to strengthen it
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - Belsnickel - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 09:29 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: That is correct
So the death of it is at the hands of the Trump administration due to their non-defense of it.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - hollodero - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 10:19 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Simple by not spending to upgrade equipment and his apologetic no fight attitude. Add in he allowed Hillary to sell the Russians enough uranium to nuke us.
Russia has 7.200 nuclear warheads. I don't think this low number was what held Putin back to nuke you in the first place.
And why does not fighting weaken the military. If any, fighting usually does. Things tend to get destroyed in these actions.
(03-12-2017, 09:41 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: President Trump is following the worst 2 term POTU ever. He divided the country, weakened our military, lied to us to promote a social program everyone with a brain knew would drive up costs for healthcare especially for the middle class.
We all know Obama sucked, lets see what the new guy can do the next 8 years before we roast his Presidency.
I don't know that. From all economic data with the exception of national debt, he strengthened the economy. After overtaking a country in deep economic crisis. And he restored respect for the US after the world was pretty pissed at Bush and the weapons of mass destruction lie.
And the ACA, see it as you please, but he got millions of people covered. Costs for the middle class are one thing, but if the price for leaving their money untouched is basically leaving sick poor people to die, I'd say one can have quite a different view on that.
I also want to throw in the question how he divided the country. In my view, his opponents did.
Not necessarily saying he was the best president ever. But the worst? Come on.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - bfine32 - 03-12-2017
(03-12-2017, 10:37 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So the death of it is at the hands of the Trump administration due to their non-defense of it.
That is some bend over backward logic.
RE: Decency, Trump and Obama. - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 03-13-2017
(03-12-2017, 10:19 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Simple by not spending to upgrade equipment and his apologetic no fight attitude. Add in he allowed Hillary to sell the Russians enough uranium to nuke us. Now you tell us why you think he did anything to strengthen it
Clearly you haven't looked at the US debt or stepped foot on a military base during the past two decades.