(08-12-2017, 07:03 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: No, it's 40% who have attempted, 92% of that having been prior to the age of 25. If you want to get technical, 4% of suicides are successful, so 1.6 in every 100. Higher than average (about 5 times higher than straight youth), but not anywhere near these numbers you're confused about. 

also, higher rates are related to strife they face from others, so a more appropriate response is to advocate for people not discriminating and causing people to believe they need to kill themselves (like calling them slurs).

Also, the military has a real suicide issue unrelated to this.

(08-12-2017, 07:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You just made the case for why we do not need to add transgenders in the military.   40% attempted suicide is still a crazy number.   Even if only 4% successful ..... why do we want 96% of that 40% in the military.....  too expensive to train people who have suicide on the brain.

(08-12-2017, 05:03 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So we should allow people who suffer from high suicide rates into the military? Shouldn't we be concerned if they are one of the 4 out of 10 who will kill themselves? Soldiers already have enough stress.... if 4 out of 10 are coming in likely to commit suicide then how much will that grow once under the stress of being a soldier? And it's expensive to train a soldier..... why are we investing in people with such a high suicide rate coming through the door?

Take out the transgender part of this and let's look at if this is a good investment of our time and resources on people who are likely to kill themselves.

(08-12-2017, 07:20 PM)Griever Wrote: nah, whats too expensive is the pentagon spending 40+ million dollars on viagra and cialis for old farts that can't get erections anymore, just because they were in the military

transgender services are a small amount of money (6-8 million i believe it was)

but the funniest thing is we have a guy who has 4 draft deferments trying to tell people who is/isnt worthy to serve in the military and put their life on the line if they choose to

(08-12-2017, 07:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You just made the case for why we do not need to add transgenders in the military. 40% attempted suicide is still a crazy number. Even if only 4% successful ..... why do we want 96% of that 40% in the military..... too expensive to train people who have suicide on the brain.

(08-12-2017, 07:47 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: And another guy completely unaffiliated with the military in any capacity asking should "we" allow people in the military. LMFAO. "We."

(08-12-2017, 07:53 PM)Griever Wrote: im only affiliated by family

my brother knew he had gay guys in his unit, and muslims, but when the bullets went off, they were putting their life on the line just like he did, and he was one of the lucky ones to come out of 3 seperate attacks mostly unscathed

(08-12-2017, 07:50 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: I'm gonna need confirmation of the numbers you keep spitting out because your sources are dubious at best.

(08-12-2017, 07:15 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You just made the case for why we do not need to add transgenders in the military.   40% attempted suicide is still a crazy number.   Even if only 4% successful ..... why do we want 96% of that 40% in the military.....  too expensive to train people who have suicide on the brain.

(08-12-2017, 09:46 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Google away.   It's not my responsibility to hold your hand.

Quote:People know that transgender people are at a higher risk of suicide, but why this risk is higher is often not understood by the public, or misused by people who wish us further harm. The statistic that 40% of transgender people have attempted suicide is used all the time to justify all sorts of things that have absolutely zero basis in science.


Why transgender people are at risk is something that has actually been studied in great detail by psychologists and sociologists. They have found many of the same factors increase risk across multiple peer reviewed studies.


Rejection by friends and family increases suicide risk
Transgender people who are rejected by their families or lack social support are much more likely to both consider suicide, and to attempt it. Conversely, those with strong support were 82% less likely to attempt suicide than those without support, according to one recent study. Another study showed that transgender youth whose parents reject their gender identity are 13 times more likely to attempt suicide than transgender youth who are supported by their parents.


Discrimination increases suicide risk
Transgender people in states without LGBT legal protections are at higher risk of suicide. Other studies have found that transgender people who have been discriminated againstare at a higher risk of suicide. What makes this worse is that discrimination against transgender people in health care, employment, accommodations, and housing is very common. Even in places with legal protections for transgender people, like Washington D.C., cultural bias and discrimination remains.


Physical abuse increases suicide risk
Transgender people who have been physically or sexually abused because they are transgender are at a higher risk of suicide. As the number of abusive incidents increases, the more likely the person is to have attempted suicide. The amount of abuse is also associated with the number of time suicide has been attempted. Again, studies on how often transgender people are assaulted show shockingly high levels of violence.


Being seen as transgender or gender non-conforming increases suicide risk
People who are seen as transgender or gender non-conforming are more likely to have attempted suicide. Also, people who have had access to surgery which allows them to “pass,” such as facial feminization surgery, report qualities of life not significantly differentfrom the general population. This is perhaps the most damning study, since it strongly suggests that when transgender people are treated the same as cisgender (non-transgender) people, the risk of suicide becomes no different than for anyone else.


Internalized transphobia increases suicide risk
Internalized transphobia is when a transgender individual applies negative messages about transgender people in general to themselves. It’s not hard to find such messages in our culture, especially since a multi-million dollar smear campaign in Houston successfully convinced an uninformed populace that transgender people should be treated like rapists and pedophiles. When transgender people start applying such messages to themselves, the suicide attempt rate skyrockets.


Intersecting minority identities increases suicide risk
Multiple studies have found that transgender people of color are at higher risk of suicide than white transgender people. This is a result of the combined effects of racial and gender identity discrimination.

Notice a pattern here? None of these risks for suicide are about being transgender. They’re about what is being done to transgender people. And therein lies the rub.


There’s nothing inherently wrong with being transgender .


There is something horribly, horribly wrong with the way we as a culture treat transgender people.



The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has addressed the issue of suicide in LGBT populations, and reached the same conclusions on the actual causes of suicide in the transgender community:

Quote:“Suicidal behaviors in LGBT populations appear to be related to “minority stress”, which stems from the cultural and social prejudice attached to minority sexual orientation and gender identity. This stress includes individual experiences of prejudice or discrimination, such as family rejection, harassment, bullying, violence, and victimization. Increasingly recognized as an aspect of minority stress is “institutional discrimination” resulting from laws and public policies that create inequities or omit LGBT people from benefits and protections afforded others. Individual and institutional discrimination have been found to be associated with social isolation, low self-esteem, negative sexual/gender identity, and depression, anxiety, and other mental disorders. These negative outcomes, rather than minority sexual orientation or gender identity per se, appear to be the key risk factors for LGBT suicidal ideation and behavior.”

This doesn’t change the fact that people who push for discrimination against transgender misuse studies, and use “experts“ who are proponents of reparative therapy for all LGBT people, and haven’t seen a transgender patient in 35 years. Their so-called logic is that if people weren’t transgender and didn’t transition, they wouldn’t commit suicide. This is the intellectual equivalent of suggesting we should prevent rape by making women wear burqas, chastity belts, and never letting them leave the house.




Their pray-away-the-trans “solutions” to bringing down the suicide rate in the transgender community are almost a guarantee of more suicides. Studies show religious counseling increases the suicide rate in LGB people. Reparative therapy has never been demonstrated to be successful on transgender people, isn’t approved by any psychological organization, has no guidelines on how to conduct it, and no standard metrics of success.




In other words, any attempt to suggest that the solution to the problem of suicide in the transgender community is to stop being transgender is nothing more than chaff. These individuals are more interested in enforcing their brand of Biblical morality on society than the actual well-being of transgender people.

They’re hoping that no one will read this article. They’re hoping that no one will think the problem through. What happens when you rape, beat, fire, evict, reject, isolate, demonize, and humiliate a class people on a daily basis? What happens when all of this is done by people in the name of God? Would you expect a group of people experiencing this to thrive?




Or would you expect 40% of them to try to find escape in oblivion?




Leelah was right.




If we want to end the scourge of suicide, it’s time we stop trying to fix transgender people.



It’s time to fix society.

(08-12-2017, 10:15 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Like I said, those are mostly youth numbers, but it's still a very small percent. Apparently the generals don't have an issue with it. Are you suggesting they ban anyone who has prior thought of suicide? This line of logic suggests it's too risky to allow white men in the military because they account for 70% of suicides. 

Quote:And 40% said they had attempted to commit suicide at some point in their lifetime, compared to 4.6% of the general population.

(08-12-2017, 10:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes they do not let people in with those types of issues.   Medical disqualification would cover this end.  

It's too bad bfine isn't around, it sure would be nice for him to chime in with the specifics.

(08-12-2017, 10:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes they do not let people in with those types of issues.   Medical disqualification would cover this end.  

It's too bad bfine isn't around, it sure would be nice for him to chime in with the specifics.

(08-12-2017, 10:32 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yes they do not let people in with those types of issues. Medical disqualification would cover this end.

It's too bad bfine isn't around, it sure would be nice for him to chime in with the specifics.

(08-12-2017, 11:12 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: So the screening occurs before they make their "investment"? No worries then.

They can turn their focus to the real issue: the fact that 20 veterans kill themselves a day, accounting for 1/5th of all suicides. 

(08-13-2017, 12:20 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Was it so difficult to provide one link? LOL

Too bad bfine isn't here, but luckily as a former military medical provider I am your resident subject matter expert.

1) IAW AR 40-501, transgender individuals qualify medically for military service so "we" don't need to fret about whether we should let them in the military. The matter is already settled.

2) IAW AR 40-501, people with a history of suicide ideation do not qualify for induction into the military whether they are heterosexual, homosexual, transgender.

3) Military veterans have a 50% greater chance of committing suicide compared to the civilian population. Which means they are 10% more likely to commit suicide than transgender individuals. I guess we can't let service members join the service, either. At least not if we pay attention to your faulty logic.

(08-13-2017, 12:36 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Exactly being a vet is stressful enough we do not need add a fragile group to that amount of stress.    

Keep making my point.

(08-13-2017, 12:38 AM)GMDino Wrote: I believe the point was that those transgender already in the military passed the tests and were not suicidal thus the suicide rate among them in general is a moot point.

But one that keeps being made despite every fact against it.

(08-13-2017, 12:38 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: If any population came to the military with a 40% suicide rate they would be rejected. The only reason it's being even talked about is the social engineering obama wanted to mess with the military.