+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+--- Thread: It's Kamala! (/Thread-It-s-Kamala)
RE: It's Kamala! - Benton - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 12:49 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Tucker Carlson had a meltdown last night. A guest corrected his pronunciation of Kamala's name Tucker said "so what?". The guest said that "out of respect of someone on a national ticket, we should be pronouncing their name correctly". Tucker then went on a rant about how you're not allowed to criticize Kamala Harris and then intentionally used two mispronunciations of her name.
(08-12-2020, 12:52 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Aww, sounds like someone triggered the snowflake.
Biden (or whoever) may be craftier with this pick than I thought.
If elected, Biden basically gets a free pass for the next four years as fox, Breitbart, etc spend the entirety of his first term talking about his Veep.
Someone is a genius.
RE: It's Kamala! - masterpanthera_t - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 12:33 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Wow, we must be watching two different clips.
I concur with Hollodero, on his take as far as these clips are concerned. It simply never came across as a destruction. It seemed that she was attacked, and while staying quiet for Gabbard to finish her talk, Harris went back and provided a rebuttal for the attack. The rebuttal could have come across as condescending or slightly defensive or both, but at no time did it seem as though Harris was so "destroyed" that the attacker had her at a loss of words or composure, nor necessarily that her answer was a deflection of the attack. And part of it, if I remember any analysis that I read on the debates at the time, could have simply been strategic, since Gabbard had barely any support in terms of voters' attention, whereas at the time, Harris' focus was on reducing the gap between herself vs. Warren and Biden. Obviously she didn't succeed in reducing it. But I suppose we just see it differently, and this is not a major contention one way or the other.
Quote:Sure, just like Obama. In this regard I'm apparently the perfect liberal, as I've been for same sex marriage my entire adult life (ask bfine, we used to argue about it all the time in the early 2000's). I didn't have to "evolve" or a have a talk about it with my daughter. Except now, to many, I'm a racist right winger, maybe other people "evolved"?
I think you might be slightly different in this aspect. I while being totally for same sex marriage for the last 10 to 15 years, am not sure I felt this way prior. Partly, because it wasn't a subject that I considered hardly ever, at that time, but I do remember, feeling uncomfortable the first time one of my friends sneakily took us to a "gay club", but then over subsequent years, being comfortable in that type of an environment, even though I myself am a heterosexual. In this way, I suppose, I "evolved", granted over just a few years, but at the same time, I didn't find myself under the cauldron of the political incubator. So, I will give a little leeway for evolving, provided it can plausibly seem genuine.
Quote:You could clearly see Harris had zero response and just had to absorb it with a grimace. Seriously, it's as close to a perfect take down as you'll ever see in these debates.
I addressed this above, but it seemed to be more condescending than a grimace of injury.
Quote:Like is a relative term. She's by far more preferable than the other Dem candidates. No, I don't like her stance on firearms, but I do like that she is pragmatic and not married to party orthodoxy. It's similar to why I really like 2000 era John McCain, although his stances were much more in line with my own, he spoke his mind and wasn't afraid to go his own way if he felt strongly enough about something. That character trait alone, being so rare in a US politician, is worthy of admiration.
I find Gabbard to be very straightforward and forthright and a lot unlike a typical politician. I admire the likes of her and Tammy Duckworth that way, and would have preferred either of them over Harris as the VP, but understand some reasons why they were not chosen. On your point about McCain, I cannot express how strongly I agree with that statement. You're a conservative, and I like to think of myself either as an Independent or moderate, with differing views on a gamut of issues that don't neatly fit into the conservative or liberal box, but the McCain of the late 90s was someone I strongly admired precisely because he seemed to be a man of principle who would go his own way away from the party norm if his principles warranted such an action. While, I have not casted a vote for a Republican yet, I have always maintained that if McCain had won the Republican nomination in 2000, he would have garnered my vote without any question. I also would have gladly voted for Kasich in the last election, if he had been the nominee. Somehow, the McCain of 2000 was not quite the same in 2008, and while I saw some of the qualities worthy of admiration, he definitely seemed to have been eroded by the political pressures by that time. Still admire him down to his final days.
RE: It's Kamala! - BmorePat87 - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 05:55 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Tucker's shtick is practically a troll, or at the minimum abundant in hypocrisy.
Having said that, it's a bit ironic considering Harris doesn't know how to pronounce her own name. Or perhaps simplified it for the American tongue, but I believe that would be giving her unnecessary benefit of doubt. Based on the OP's link and the correction by the guest on Carlson's show, I'm going to infer that Harris herself pronounces it as "Comma la", which is incorrect. It's actually "Kuh muh lAh". Slightly larger picture, never considered her to be seriously conscious of her Indian roots in depth, other than cursory mentions of it, and a sort of "look, I'm not only black, but I also have this totally different ethnicity going for me". Admittedly, I'm neither a big fan of hers nor well versed in her background, but none of her actions scream "Indian" by culture, save for when political points are to be gained. Mentions of growing up eating Indian foods at home on a cooking show with another lady of Indian descent, while I guess is something, isn't that convincing. None of which speaks ill of her, but at the same time, paints her as a panderer claiming a cultural affiliation she doesn't follow, or at best it rings hollow of someone biologically tied to another culture and nothing more, all the while making more of said ties than what's true in conduct. For all intents and purposes, I would classify her as a Black woman socialized deeply into the American Black ethos, and that's perfectly fine by me. I'm just seriously skeptical of any claims of Indian culture other than purely DNA based. But then again, politicians are not exactly new to pandering/ redefining their image according to the situation, so, this is just par for the course. She was a perfectly safe pick as a Black woman with name recognition, albeit with some rough edges from her prosecutorial background.
Honestly, I was hoping for anybody but Harris as a VP pick, but in the larger picture, I don't believe this affects Biden's candidacy too adversely if at all. A safe pick, but not a very inspired one. Having said that, I sure hope Biden sees his full term through.
Everything I've read or listened to has "comma-la" as the correct sanskrit pronunciation. She was raised by her Indian mother, visited family in India throughout her childhood, and would go to her mom's Hindu temple as a child.
I'm not sure how that's pandering.
RE: It's Kamala! - masterpanthera_t - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 06:19 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Everything I've read or listened to has "comma-la" as the correct sanskrit pronunciation. She was raised by her Indian mother, visited family in India throughout her childhood, and would go to her mom's Hindu temple as a child.
I'm not sure how that's pandering.
Trust me, as someone who knows the samskrita pronunciation, and having spoken that word many times, it's "kuh muh LAH", not "comma lah". The word lotus has many words, and this particular one AFAIK, has never been pronounced that way. It's also the name of the doctor who handled my delivery, which, is just coincidental, but just another example of where I have heard that name being said.
I'm aware of her mother's origin and her visits to India as a child, but her life as an adult seems to indicate a strongly western, African American bent. Nothing wrong with that, and she chose to live out that part of her heritage, and given that she's a black woman and in America, I do not begrudge her choices. But, honestly, I don't see any cultural aspects of her life that resonate with Indian culture. I've said before that I'm not well versed in her history or background, and am totally willing to change my disposition given new information, but it seems her ties to any Indian culture have gone since the passing of her mother. I would say that if any cultural connections should really be emphasized here, it's her black/African American one, and anything else is a bit of political theater. Is she Indian, yes in the biological sense. I don't believe so, in any other sense.
RE: It's Kamala! - Belsnickel - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 06:33 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Trust me, as someone who knows the samskrita pronunciation, and having spoken that word many times, it's "kuh muh LAH", not "comma lah". The word lotus has many words, and this particular one AFAIK, has never been pronounced that way. It's also the name of the doctor who handled my delivery, which, is just coincidental, but just another example of where I have heard that name being said.
I'm aware of her mother's origin and her visits to India as a child, but her life as an adult seems to indicate a strongly western, African American bent. Nothing wrong with that, and she chose to live out that part of her heritage, and given that she's a black woman and in America, I do not begrudge her choices. But, honestly, I don't see any cultural aspects of her life that resonate with Indian culture. I've said before that I'm not well versed in her history or background, and am totally willing to change my disposition given new information, but it seems her ties to any Indian culture have gone since the passing of her mother. I would say that if any cultural connections should really be emphasized here, it's her black/African American one, and anything else is a bit of political theater. Is she Indian, yes in the biological sense. I don't believe so, in any other sense.
Not going to lie, people pronounce and spell their names differently all the time. I find it ridiculous when it's done because it's someone's name and how they pronounce it is the right way for them. My last name can be pronounced several ways and I have had people try to tell me it's pronounced differently based on the Macedonian city, but because of my family's immigration path they pronounced it differently.
Anyway, trying to tell someone they pronounce they "don't know how to pronounce their own name" is a dick move.
RE: It's Kamala! - masterpanthera_t - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 07:04 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Not going to lie, people pronounce and spell their names differently all the time. I find it ridiculous when it's done because it's someone's name and how they pronounce it is the right way for them. My last name can be pronounced several ways and I have had people try to tell me it's pronounced differently based on the Macedonian city, but because of my family's immigration path they pronounced it differently.
Anyway, trying to tell someone they pronounce they "don't know how to pronounce their own name" is a dick move.
In the context in which you described your name, that makes sense. Also, you're probably many generations removed from your original ancestor with the name who reached the US, I'm assuming, although, assumptions are unsafe. I've heard of many Americans changing their last name (willingly or otherwise) upon reaching the shores of the U.S.
Given the origin of her name and the claim that her name is based on the word lotus, there's one way to say it. The fact she doesn't, is fine, but then again, I can practically guarantee that simply based on her mother's name (Shyamala Gopalan), and how people from the region her mother's from pronounce it, there's one way to pronounce it. Choosing to pronounce your name, how you see fit, I suppose is your right, but I'm nearly certain her mother did not call her "Comma la", but "kuh muh lAh". But as far as me pointing it out being a jerk move, well, if you read my comment where this originated, it was in the context of the irony of claiming Tucker didn't pronounce her name correctly. I'm pointing out that she doesn't pronounce it correctly either. In any other context, it wouldn't have come up. Certainly not on my account.
RE: It's Kamala! - TheLeonardLeap - 08-12-2020
(08-11-2020, 06:22 PM)Millhouse Wrote: If only Trump wasn't so Trump, smh. Can't vote for him, and I don't really want to vote for Biden now.
The peril of being a normal moderate American these days. What to do, what to do.
RE: It's Kamala! - hollodero - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 02:06 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Here's the difference, I understand why you, or anyone else, doesn't like Trump. Yet people here seem mystified as to why I loathe the current iteration of the Democratic party. It's honestly a little baffling.
I hate to interject constantly, weird I do it anyway: I guess the reason is that for many, including me, your case for loathing the Democratic party seems a tad underwhelming. Especially when it comes to Biden and Harris. This is not a far left ticket by any means, at the same time it (imho) is not a placeholder ticket for AOC et al. And other leading democrats, and the democrativc electorate, seem to be on a similar page still, they are all not that radical, not that far left, the majority of Democrats doesn't seem to be. Fringe fractions excepted.
And that's why for me it's sometimes a bit hard to grasp, why all that loathe you describe expands to include Trump's quite moderate opponent. A guy that probably wouldn't even imply universal healthcare and honestly comes across as overall pretty conservative to me.
To include someting specific, what about Biden's positions specifically would you loathe?
RE: It's Kamala! - hollodero - 08-12-2020
I'm a bit bored, so let me just ask one question: Why did it have to be a black woman? After all, there already was a black president, so one might say this ethnicity already was covered quite well recently in regards to WH honors. I might get why it is a woman, but it would have been way fairer to choose a latina woman this time around. Hispanic population in the US is 18%, blacks are 16%, so why was it their turn yet again?
I hope for at least one snarky response to that.
RE: It's Kamala! - BmorePat87 - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 06:33 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: Trust me, as someone who knows the samskrita pronunciation, and having spoken that word many times, it's "kuh muh LAH", not "comma lah". The word lotus has many words, and this particular one AFAIK, has never been pronounced that way. It's also the name of the doctor who handled my delivery, which, is just coincidental, but just another example of where I have heard that name being said.
I'm aware of her mother's origin and her visits to India as a child, but her life as an adult seems to indicate a strongly western, African American bent. Nothing wrong with that, and she chose to live out that part of her heritage, and given that she's a black woman and in America, I do not begrudge her choices. But, honestly, I don't see any cultural aspects of her life that resonate with Indian culture. I've said before that I'm not well versed in her history or background, and am totally willing to change my disposition given new information, but it seems her ties to any Indian culture have gone since the passing of her mother. I would say that if any cultural connections should really be emphasized here, it's her black/African American one, and anything else is a bit of political theater. Is she Indian, yes in the biological sense. I don't believe so, in any other sense.
I’ll take your word on it, though the way you have it written looks close to how she pronounces it. The emphasis seems to be in the same place, unlike the “kuh MAH lah” pronunciation, just with the first two syllables closer together.
What would the kuh muh rhyme with?
As to the rest, I think it’s a bad idea to try to dictate the authenticity of others culture when you admittedly don’t know much about their history.
RE: It's Kamala! - BmorePat87 - 08-12-2020
(08-12-2020, 09:57 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'm a bit bored, so let me just ask one question: Why did it have to be a black woman? After all, there already was a black president, so one might say this ethnicity already was covered quite well recently in regards to WH honors. I might get why it is a woman, but it would have been way fairer to choose a latina woman this time around. Hispanic population in the US is 18%, blacks are 16%, so why was it their turn yet again?
I hope for at least one snarky response to that.
Black women are a very marginalized group with very little representation in politics. Harris is the 2nd black woman ever to be Senator. There’s never been a Black woman who served as governor.
Male and Female Latinos and Asians have had far more representation as governors (only 3 elected Black governors ever). Latinos have had more representation in the Senate and there’s only be one more Black Senator than Asian Senators.
In a post George Floyd America, Black voices are crucial. Female voices are too.
RE: It's Kamala! - Dill - 08-13-2020
(08-12-2020, 09:57 PM)hollodero Wrote: I'm a bit bored, so let me just ask one question: Why did it have to be a black woman? After all, there already was a black president, so one might say this ethnicity already was covered quite well recently in regards to WH honors. I might get why it is a woman, but it would have been way fairer to choose a latina woman this time around. Hispanic population in the US is 18%, blacks are 16%, so why was it their turn yet again?
LOL identity rotation?
A supplement to Bpat's points. The pressure for a black female VP has been there for over four years.
Demand for Biden to Name Black Woman Surges Ahead of Vice Presidential Pick
https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2020-08-11/demand-for-biden-to-name-black-woman-surges-ahead-of-vice-presidential-pick
"Black women are sick and tired of being considered the backbone of the Democratic Party. We want to be recognized as leaders. We want all the things. We're due," Democratic consultant and 2016 Clinton campaign spokeswoman Karen Finney told The 19th, a nonprofit newsroom reporting on gender, politics and policy.
More than 100 Black men, including celebrities and athletes and academics, signed an open letter Monday to Biden, demanding that he choose an African American woman for the job. Biden has already committed to putting the first Black woman on the Supreme Court, but his vice president would likely be someone with whom he interacts and consults with on a regular basis.
"For too long Black women have been asked to do everything from rally the troops to risk their lives for the Democratic Party with no acknowledgment, no respect, no visibility, and certainly not enough support," said the letter, signed by such figures as rapper Sean "Diddy" Combs, civil rights attorney Ben Crump and prominent Georgetown University sociology professor Michael Eric Dyson.
RE: It's Kamala! - masterpanthera_t - 08-13-2020
(08-12-2020, 10:04 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I’ll take your word on it, though the way you have it written looks close to how she pronounces it. The emphasis seems to be in the same place, unlike the “kuh MAH lah” pronunciation, just with the first two syllables closer together.
What would the kuh muh rhyme with?
As to the rest, I think it’s a bad idea to try to dictate the authenticity of others culture when you admittedly don’t know much about their history.
Kuh muh would rhyme with "uh uh", whereas comma would rhyme with "Ah uh."
As to the authenticity, my point isn't that she never had an affiliation with the culture, it's simply that it's not emphasized except as a passing claim at the time of politics. It might be a harsh statement, but honestly I can't recall any authentic association with Indian culture nor any mention of any issues of interest specific to it. It's not necessarily as limited an association as say Elizabeth Warren's with Native American culture ( I know she has some fraction of the DNA), but not much more than that. I do not intend to mention Warren as Trump does, but simply to draw a comparison here. Perhaps, rather than question her authenticity, I'm stating my opinion that her cultural associations resemble those of a black woman politician with just a coincidental Indian link than one who has deep associations with Indian culture or even wants one. I hope I'm wrong and too cynical. But politicians painting an image different than reality is unfortunately more rule than the exception.
Ultimately, it's only my opinion and not something that affects the ticket. I don't necessarily want this to become a topic of national conversation at least in the manner that we've discussed so far. If the Indian American community claims her (or does not) as one of their own, then it will be a national conversation potentially. Otherwise, I'd just like to leave it at that.
RE: It's Kamala! - Vas Deferens - 08-13-2020
Is it more disingenuous to say the pronunciation of your name the way that the society you grew up in pronounced it your entire life (via others ignorance or an attempt at an early age to say “close enough,I’ll go with it”) or to paint yourself orange in attempt to literally change your aesthetic color well into your 70’s?
The intentions of bringing the ‘comma-la vs’ wing are irrelevant. Their priorities say everything.
RE: It's Kamala! - masterpanthera_t - 08-13-2020
(08-13-2020, 01:33 AM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Is it more disingenuous to say the pronunciation of your name the way that the society you grew up in pronounced it your entire life (via others ignorance or an attempt at an early age to say “close enough,I’ll go with it”) or to paint yourself orange in attempt to literally change your aesthetic color well into your 70’s?
The intentions of bringing the ‘comma-la vs’ wing are irrelevant. Their priorities say everything.
I'm assuming this is directed at my post. If not, the following doesn't address your post.
First off, reading the origin of the name pronunciation will help you understand that I was responding to a post in context of questioning someone else's pronunciation of Harris' name. Especially ironic given your "close enough, I'll go with it" argument.
Second, I've never attempted to defend Trump in a single post on this board, and certainly not even implied such in this thread. As far as priorities are concerned, I've essentially stated that the pronunciation issue is not important enough to affect the democratic ticket nor should become a serious topic of conversation. Somehow in your haste to cast me as a Trump advocate, or some sort of equivalency provider, you've missed "everything" that those statements above say.
RE: It's Kamala! - Vas Deferens - 08-13-2020
(08-13-2020, 01:55 AM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: I'm assuming this is directed at my post. If not, the following doesn't address your post.
First off, reading the origin of the name pronunciation will help you understand that I was responding to a post in context of questioning someone else's pronunciation of Harris' name. Especially ironic given your "close enough, I'll go with it" argument.
Second, I've never attempted to defend Trump in a single post on this board, and certainly not even implied such in this thread. As far as priorities are concerned, I've essentially stated that the pronunciation issue is not important enough to affect the democratic ticket nor should become a serious topic of conversation. Somehow in your haste to cast me as a Trump advocate, or some sort of equivalency provider, you've missed "everything" that those statements above say.
If I was talking to you specifically I would use this ^ nifty technique.
But please, continue to impress us all with your knowledge of how her name is pronounced in your opinion versus how she pronounces it. “riv·et·ing”
RE: It's Kamala! - hollodero - 08-13-2020
(08-12-2020, 10:17 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Black women are a very marginalized group with very little representation in politics. Harris is the 2nd black woman ever to be Senator. There’s never been a Black woman who served as governor.
Male and Female Latinos and Asians have had far more representation as governors (only 3 elected Black governors ever). Latinos have had more representation in the Senate and there’s only be one more Black Senator than Asian Senators.
In a post George Floyd America, Black voices are crucial. Female voices are too.
OK, looked up the senate, there were nine latino senators and ten black senators. Of course, right now it's 4-3 in favor of hispanics and 1-1 when regarding black women and hispanic women. In the current house, 56 members are black and 43 hispanic. Amongst them are 22 black women and only 12 hispanic women. Indeed there never was a black women governor until now, while there've been already three hispanic women governors, that much is true. However, there only was one female hispanic cabinet member ever, while there were four black female ones.
Does that mean much, no. It just imho means one could easily make a case that female hispanics are a marginalized group.
(08-13-2020, 12:37 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL identity rotation?
Yeh kind of... blacks had their turn :) ... sure, I do not even intend to veil it, I find it odd in general to say, well I have no idea who my VP will be yet, but let's commit to a black woman nonetheless. Imho, this is also not ideal for Harris. Many can quite easily say, well mainly she got the gig because she checked the two major boxes, that aren't exactly accomplishments. And they wouldn't be wrong about that.
Of course I get why Biden did that. Still think it's not ideal.
RE: It's Kamala! - Belsnickel - 08-13-2020
(08-12-2020, 07:10 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: In the context in which you described your name, that makes sense. Also, you're probably many generations removed from your original ancestor with the name who reached the US, I'm assuming, although, assumptions are unsafe. I've heard of many Americans changing their last name (willingly or otherwise) upon reaching the shores of the U.S.
Given the origin of her name and the claim that her name is based on the word lotus, there's one way to say it. The fact she doesn't, is fine, but then again, I can practically guarantee that simply based on her mother's name (Shyamala Gopalan), and how people from the region her mother's from pronounce it, there's one way to pronounce it. Choosing to pronounce your name, how you see fit, I suppose is your right, but I'm nearly certain her mother did not call her "Comma la", but "kuh muh lAh". But as far as me pointing it out being a jerk move, well, if you read my comment where this originated, it was in the context of the irony of claiming Tucker didn't pronounce her name correctly. I'm pointing out that she doesn't pronounce it correctly either. In any other context, it wouldn't have come up. Certainly not on my account.
I knew the context, and my opinion is still the same. I mean, I am certain there are different ways to pronounce the word within Hindi because there would be dialectic differences based on many things, much like we see with every other language in the world.
RE: It's Kamala! - grampahol - 08-13-2020
(08-11-2020, 05:45 PM)treee Wrote: RIP Mike Pence
The hell with resting. I want him to RIH..with his puppet master.
RE: It's Kamala! - GMDino - 08-13-2020
The POTUS has decided to go after Harris' policies and not just go with personal attacks.
No, that's a joke. Trump is still running on fueling hate for anyone who opposes him on anything and name calling.
The Fake News Media is giving @KamalaHarris a free pass despite her Radical Left failures and very poor run in the Democrat Primary. There was nobody meaner or more condescending to Slow Joe, not even me, and yet she quickly evaporated down to almost zero in the polls. Bad!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 13, 2020