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What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: { All Things Biden & Trump } (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-All-Things-Biden-Trump) +---- Thread: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? (/Thread-What-will-impact-be-with-voters-if-Trump-is-forced-to-take-a-mug-shot) |
RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Nately120 - 09-03-2023 (09-03-2023, 11:21 AM)GMDino Wrote: Everything Trump does is going to play well with his supporters and turn into merchandise for him, that's just the way it is. If the pee tape were released tomorrow his supporters would tell us how getting pissed on makes him the awesomest dude ever and he'd have a picture of it on a t shirt saying "NOW IM "PISSED OFF." RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - GMDino - 09-03-2023 ![]() https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-mug-shot-georgia-t-shirt-cash-grab-rcna102825 Quote:The tricky legal question at the center of the Trump mug shot cash grab RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Mike M (the other one) - 09-03-2023 (09-03-2023, 02:21 PM)Dill Wrote: So my argument was, and still is, that it was "myth" that being spat on was a common experience. I am using the term "myth" as Jerry Lembcke uses it in his book Spitting Image.The MYTH is not that it NEVER EVER occurred, but that it was a COMMON experience. My interest in the matter, as stated above, is in why the myth appeared during Bush I's term, and came to to be framed as a big personal insult to vets when questioned. So anyone who questions this right wing revision of history is then cast as "attacking the troops" to stop the discussion. Nevermind that the majority of Vietnam vets polled agree they were not spit on or mistreated, but welcomed by their "liberal" peers. And that's how I regard my difference with SSF over this--his complaints are just another attempt to stop the questioning of revisionist history. Since you were there, tell us how were the Soldiers treated by non-family civilians when they got home? RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Dill - 09-04-2023 (09-03-2023, 06:08 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Since you were there, tell us how were the Soldiers treated by non-family civilians when they got home? Mostly pretty well by what I saw in classes and on campus, and by polls of vets from the late 1970s onward. In my responses to SSF on war protest, I discussed how vets made up a large part of the protest movement, where they were welcomed, at a time when there were protests on most every campus in the U.S. The majority of vets also saw the government was the problem, not people who were protesting that problem. I don't recall ANY talk of "spitting" until the 1990s, as GWH Bush was ramping up the population for the Gulf War. Even then it was more about keeping people positive about the current military than honoring vets from a war the most had forgotten by then. I.e., they were preparing for the next round of forgotten veterans. I still see the "myth" as an effort to turn public attention away from the politicians who lead Americans into war and focus public anger on those who protest such wars for being "un-American." RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Dill - 09-04-2023 (09-03-2023, 05:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: I can see why the Fulton County Sheriff's department might not want to set a precedent by suing for the proceeds of Trump's sale. But I think they should at least order that he stop using the image to stop the grift. RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-04-2023 (09-04-2023, 10:09 AM)Dill Wrote: Mostly pretty well by what I saw in classes and on campus, and by polls of vets from the late 1970s onward. All of which is immaterial to the question of whether some vets were spat upon by far leftists. Quote:I don't recall ANY talk of "spitting" until the 1990s, as GWH Bush was ramping up the population The you must have lived on a commune. I read about it in a GI Joe comic in 1982-83, which is what prompted me to ask my father if that really happened. He told me it did, that it never happened to him but did happen to a friend of his. Quite frankly, I don't believe you when you say you never heard of it until the 90's. Quote:I still see the "myth" as an effort to turn public attention away from the politicians who lead Americans into Yeah, except you didn't phrase it that way, at all. You got caught claiming my father's friend lied, you literally stated several times it never happened and you're now try to wriggle out of it because almost everyone is appalled by your initial argument. You could be a grown man and apologize for your statements, but we all know you won't. RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-04-2023 I was actually able to find the panel of the comic in question. ![]() You'd like the source, Dill. They say it was largely a myth too. But they were a little more circumspect than you and just said it was "largely a myth". RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Mike M (the other one) - 09-04-2023 Hmmm so having the place where you are living (ROTC buildings) set on fire on campuses across the US is merely a "welcome" by the people! RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - GMDino - 09-04-2023 (09-04-2023, 12:49 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Hmmm so having the place where you are living (ROTC buildings) set on fire on campuses across the US is merely a "welcome" by the people! Or, and I'm just spit balling here, many different people had many different experiences and the absolute worst one got the most press/attention. And rightly so. But others, perhaps even a majority of the others, did not have that horrible and despicable experience. Which does NOT take away from their experience at all even when it is talked about, or if someone takes it personally that their experience was not that of others. This ENTIRE cross-thread, multi post exchange was created because (paraphrasing) one person told his father's story, another mentioned that that did not see to be how most stories went and the first person took direct offense and lied that the second posted was calling his father a liar. It should have been ended 50 posts ago or given it's own thread where people could argue their personal experiences/feelings are more important that anyone else. And I personally don't care which side of the argument you are on, it's been nothing but a stupid distraction to the actual posting in this forum, IMHO. RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Luvnit2 - 09-04-2023 (09-04-2023, 01:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: Or, and I'm just spit balling here, many different people had many different experiences and the absolute worst one got the most press/attention. Our common sense tells us a small minority is the issue, but we allow the media to embellish stories and make it appear it is the majority under attack versus a super minority. Maybe it is time the people on the left and the right start loving our country again and work together to make it better versus tearing it down at every turn. It is sad we no longer have a super majority proud to be an American. RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Mike M (the other one) - 09-05-2023 I was reading that even if charged with anything, he would still be eligible to run for POTUS. The only 2 ways he wouldn't be able to run is if: Impeached (acquitted 2x) or the 14th Amendment (Incitement of Insurrection) Senate never charged him. IS that wrong? or right? RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 01:15 AM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: I was reading that even if charged with anything, he would still be eligible to run for POTUS. Given that our criminal justice system is predicated on the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty Trump would have to be found guilty of said sedition to be precluded from office. RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Mike M (the other one) - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 02:13 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Given that our criminal justice system is predicated on the concept that a person is innocent until proven guilty Trump would have to be found guilty of said sedition to be precluded from office. Hmm In order to run you must be: Natural born US Citizen Lived in US for 14 years minimum 35 or older. The 2nd Impeachment was "incitement of insurrection" against the US Gov and "lawless action at the Capitol" which was acquitted. Had be been found guilty then he couldn't be POTUS unless a Super Majority in the House and Senate ok'ed it. No where does it say a convicted criminal CAN'T be POTUS. Eugene Debs Ran for POTUS after being convicted of violating the Espionage Act Lydon LaRouche ran for POTUS from 1976 to 2004 while in Jail during the 1992 campaign! He was convicted of tax and mail fraud in 1988. RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Dill - 09-05-2023 (09-04-2023, 12:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: All of which is immaterial to the question of whether some vets were spat upon by far leftists. Not immaterial to the question OtherMike actually asked though, and to whom it was addressed: "Since you were there, tell us how were the Soldiers treated by non-family civilians when they got home?" Keeping answers tied to the questions they are intended to answer is focus. (09-04-2023, 12:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Then you must have lived on a commune. I read about it in a GI Joe comic in 1982-83, which is what prompted me to ask my father if that really happened. He told me it did, that it never happened to him but did happen to a friend of his. Quite frankly, I don't believe you when you say you never heard of it until the 90's. Actually I was living in Germany from '83 to '93. And what you "believe" doesn't much matter. In debates with me it is about what can be proven. What is the date and issue # of your comic evidence? RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Dill - 09-05-2023 (09-04-2023, 12:49 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Hmmm so having the place where you are living (ROTC buildings) set on fire on campuses across the US is merely a "welcome" by the people! Has someone on this thread been arguing that there were no protests against the Vietnam war on college campuses? Also, outside of instructors, it is unlikely one would find returning vets to "welcome" in ROTC buildings, right? ROTC would be other students. You may be conflating several issues here. I'm curious though--what is your stance on war protests? Are they ever justified? Are they aimed at the government or party in power, or specific policies, or are they mostly aimed at the military, which does not make policy? Was it "bad" to protest the Vietnam War? RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Dill - 09-05-2023 (09-04-2023, 12:10 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Quote:I still see the "myth" as an effort to turn public attention away from the politicians who lead Americans into LOL I just quoted myself "phrasing it that way" (from #64) in my post to OtherMike above, #120. Same direct "phrasing" in posts #68, 69, and 80. Two notes to maybe reduce the drama: 1. For me this discussion is about the value/ethics of historical inquiry, whether researchers are allowed to follow the facts wherever the facts take them, without ideological obstruction. Demanding that we not insult and demean the "lived experience" of returning troops by inquiring into whether soldiers were actually spit on, whether that was a common experience, and whether the claim it was a common experience has become politically useful to those who want a freer hand in military actions abroad, is just that sort of obstruction. And rather ironic given that those taking the lead in such "demeaning" inquiries have always been Vietnam vets themselves. Whether your father or his friend actually "lied" is uninteresting to me and has never been my focus. Framing my inquiry as a personal attack on your father or his friend (who aren't even mentioned in my posts), for which you can then demand a "manly" apology, is just that kind of obstruction--manufactured outrage to stop inquiry into the historical question, to protect the "myth." 2. Especially when speaking for "almost everyone," you should extend them and me the courtesy of showing us what you are talking about. This is not about masculinity, but accuracy, consistency and integrity. Where are the "outright lies" and "wriggling"? If the claim is that I "got caught claiming [your] father's friend lied," and I "literally stated several times it never happened," then you ought to be able to quote at least two such statements and post #s, right? Not something like "the question is raised in college courses," or "The myth of the spitting protestors seems to have emerged in the 90s," all of which sound like someone pursuing a historical discussion about the "myth" that spitting was a common experience, and not at all interested in your father or his friend. And you can't quote something from a source and attribute it to me unless I have singled out that quote to agree with. So in the interest of accuracy and integrity, where did I claim your father or his friend lied? Show whomever it is you mean by "we" and "everyone" the exact quotes for which I should "apologize." If you actually can produce the asked for evidence, take it back to the Ramaswamy thread, or to "our" A-stan thread. It's off topic here. Of if you can't produce it, then maybe just stop telling people that I attacked your father and lied about the myth "multiple times." RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Dill - 09-05-2023 (09-04-2023, 01:06 PM)GMDino Wrote: This ENTIRE cross-thread, multi post exchange was created because (paraphrasing) one person told his father's story, another mentioned that that did not see to be how most stories went and the first person took direct offense and lied that the second posted was calling his father a liar. I do think it is more than a "stupid distraction," since it involves using "personal feelings" to block full discussion of political topics that ought to be open to free inquiry. Seen from that angle, its not really about feelings, but about obstructing discussion of certain topics for political reasons. It's always hard for me to let that pass, even if it's off topic. But you are right that it is not the sort of discussion that should be crossing threads. And here it is off topic. If I choose to answer any more posts on the subject, I'll remove them to a different thread. ![]() RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 11:12 AM)Dill Wrote: Actually I was living in Germany from '83 to '93. And what you "believe" doesn't much matter. I can only tell you it was before the summer of 1984, because we moved to Europe then when my father was stationed at AFCENT (Allied Forces Central). (09-05-2023, 11:24 AM)Dill Wrote: LOL I just quoted myself "phrasing it that way" (from #64) in my post to OtherMike above, #120. Same direct "phrasing" in posts #68, 69, and 80. Two notes to maybe reduce the drama: It's already been done several times, but here you go, since you need consistent reminders. (08-09-2023, 10:17 PM)Dill Wrote: Could very well be. The question of whether such things happened is often raised in college history courses on the '60s. From my memory, protestors and hippies and the like were more worried about being beaten up by gung ho active duty types. I do remember returning vets being largely welcomed into protests movements, which many eagerly joined. They became one of the most important constituents of the anti-war movement. In this post you literally state that soldiers being spat upon was a "myth" that emerged in the 90's. You said this, not a quoted source. Since you seem to have memory issues I have conveniently bolded and underlined the relevant section above. You also cite sources that claim it was a "myth", that it could not have happened, is a "legend" and that such stories are apocryphal. When you state that what someone claims is a "myth" you are saying they are not telling what really happened, i.e. they are lying. Literally no one said it was a "common experience" either before or after the above post, so don't bother dissembling that you were addressing any claims that it was. It's there in black and white for everyone to see, so kindly own it like a man and stop prevaricating on this issue. RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Dill - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 11:51 AM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I can only tell you it was before the summer of 1984, because we moved to Europe then when my father was stationed at AFCENT (Allied Forces Central). The comic you cited is used in a several internet sources dealing with the "myth." Evidence of media involvement in making the myth. https://theworld.org/stories/2012-03-20/vietnam-anti-war-movement-legacy-todays-returning-veterans https://www.fromthesquare.org/spat-on-veterans-an-enduring-myth/ One says it was from a GI Joe comic. Those didn't start until 1985. You have failed to quote me directly attacking your father or his friend, and then "lying" about that. You are just redefining "myth" to mean "no one ever was" then claiming that's what I REALLY meant. Quoting my sources, some of which are disagreed with, doesn't make your case either. But I'll address that later today, on the Ramaswamy thread, not here. I won't answer anymore Vietnam posts from you on this thread. RE: What will impact be with voters if Trump is forced to take a mug shot? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-05-2023 (09-05-2023, 12:09 PM)Dill Wrote: The comic you citated is used in a several internet sources dealing with the "myth." Yeah, keep failing. The comic ran from 1982 to 1994. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.I._Joe:_A_Real_American_Hero_(Marvel_Comics) I literally remember reading them with friends when I lived in Iowa, which was from 1981-1984. Quote:You have failed to quote me directly attacking your father or his friend, and then "lying" about that. You literally said it was a myth. A myth is not a true thing, i.e. anyone claiming it is is not being truthful. Quote:I won't answer anymore Vietnam posts from you on this thread. Of course you won't, you just got caught in 4K so you have no option but to apologize, which you're apparently incapable of, or taking your ball and going home, which you do every time you are proven wrong. It's fine though, everyone else can plainly see you being dishonest in real time. Thanks for playing. |