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RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - fredtoast - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 12:11 AM)Rotobeast Wrote: Just curious as to if you misspelled racist on purpose ?
Maybe as a plausible deniability thing ?
"No, I didn't call him a racist. I called him a "racxists"....".

Sorry.... I'm bored.
Tongue

Interesting that i misspelled it the same way so many times.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - BmorePat87 - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 01:35 AM)Vlad Wrote: Those backward practices and other are known as Sharia Law. Sharia law is practiced throughout most Middle Eastern Islamic states, so it is not silly to suggest that it does.

The countries in purple are countries where Sharia applies in full, covering personal status issues as well as criminal proceedings.
[Image: 2s7i8p1.png]
 
Women continue to be stoned to death in these countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/08/saudi-court-to-re-examine-stoning-sentence-of-sri-lankan-woman

The execution of gays.

Prejudice remains, both socially and legally, in much of the Islamic world against people who engage in homosexual acts. In Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen, homosexual activity carries the death penalty

Countries where female genital mutilation is still practiced.

[Image: 9r7khl.png]
 


In addition to female genital mutilation, a large portion of Africans still live in grass huts and chuck spears, so yes its fair to say much of Africa is still primitive or backward.


So does all this mean I'm a racist too?

I didn't mention Sharia Law since its covers a broad spectrum of issues, most of which aren't controversial. If you want to just equate it with stoning gay people then go ahead. I'd say that's more ignorance than racism as you're making a broad generalization based on a lack of understanding (not to mention you're criticizing a religion). 

As for your conclusion on Africa, there are certainly places that are not developed. There are many places with backwards beliefs. However, a quick look at the data shows us only 14 of Africa's 54 nations have rated of 50% or higher. A third of those on your map have rates ranging from 1-15%. 28 of Africa's nations have laws against it. Egypt, one of the nations with the highest rates banned it 8 years ago and jailed the first doctor prosecuted

If this is marker, is have to reject the claim that all of Africa or even most, is "savage". 


Edit: if you're curious, Lucie's reasoning was that they keep killing eachother. He wasn't able to show that they're doing it in significant numbers compared to other regions and refused to answer if Europe was savage based on the casualties of WWI and WWII. You at least thought you had data to support your claim, so we can make the assumption it wasn't based on a general dislike of the people from those regions like Lucie's was.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - BmorePat87 - 01-19-2016

Can we now get back to Kansas and not eugenics and racism?

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - magikod - 01-19-2016

(01-13-2016, 04:31 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Poor People get medical coverage at other places than pp.   and let's face it ....    We all know what pp is in the business of ....  Population control of the poor and dark skinned.

that is ****** up 

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - StLucieBengal - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 01:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How could you possibly accuse me of being brainwashed when i completely reject the eugenic principle that only the genetically superior people should be allowed to procreate?  And when I also support helping poor minorities get reproductive health assistance to help them procreate.

Wouldn't brainwashing require that I agree with their beliefs instead of rejecting them completely?

Did the German people agree to slaughter the Jews ..... Or did they accept it under the belief it was something else? Like in their best interests.

And all I have said is that your reasons for supporting PP just happen to mirror the exact reasons used to promote why we needed the negro project.

i just compared history to today. Not my fault you happen to agree with the same group you are trying to distance yourself from now. There is a reason they changed the language the past 100 years ..... It's awful.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - StLucieBengal - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 08:49 AM)magikod Wrote: that is ***** up 

Tell me about it .... And they actually get tax payer money.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - fredtoast - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 05:56 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote:   

And all I have said is that your reasons for supporting PP just happen to mirror the exact reasons used to promote why we needed the negro project.  

And all I did was point out that this is a complete lie.  I don not support Planned Parenthood because I feel that minorities and poor people should not reproduce because they are genetically inferior.  In fact one reason I support PP is because they provide reproductive health care to help the disadvantaged have children.  Can you not read?

  
And what about the fact that you agree with the KKK that affirmative action for minorities is a bad thing?  Does that mean that you believe exactly what the KKK believes?  Have they brainwashed you?

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - StLucieBengal - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 06:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And all I did was point out that this is a complete lie.  I don not support Planned Parenthood because I feel that minorities and poor people should not reproduce because they are genetically inferior.  In fact one reason I support PP is because they provide reproductive health care to help the disadvantaged have children.  Can you not read?

  
And what about the fact that you agree with the KKK that affirmative action for minorities is a bad thing?  Does that mean that you believe exactly what the KKK believes?  Have they brainwashed you?

So they are helping them have children by aborting 47% of their children in New York City alone? Explain how that math works out....

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - SteelCitySouth - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 06:17 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So they are helping them have children by aborting 47% of their children in New York City alone?   Explain how that math works out....

I highly doubt that 47% of minorities that are pregnant have abortions.  I would love to see some real data on that.  

Found some data. It appears that they are very close to those numbers.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - StLucieBengal - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 06:22 PM)SteelCitySouth Wrote: I highly doubt that 47% of minorities that are pregnant have abortions.  I would love to see some real data on that.  

I have posted this study before when it was in the news.    I found it again here please disregard the site.   There are links within the article to the study and numbers.    It's In other places it will just take longer to find so in an effort to keep the discussion moving here it is

http://www.lifenews.com/2014/12/01/black-lives-matter-78-of-abortions-in-new-york-city-were-done-on-black-hispanic-babies/

Quote:In 2012, there were more black babies killed by abortion (31,328) in New York City than were born there (24,758), and the black children killed comprised 42.4% of the total number of abortions in the Big Apple, according to a report by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene.
The report is entitled, Summary of Vital Statistics 2012 The City of New York, Pregnancy Outcomes, and was prepared by the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, Office of Vital Statistics. (See  Pregnancy Outcomes NYC Health 2012.pdf)
There were  6,570 more abortions than live births of black children. In total, there were 73,815 abortions, which means the 31,328 black babies aborted comprised 42.4% of the total abortions.
The abortion ratio citywide fell to just over 37% in 2012-a record low since 1970 when abortion was legalized in New York. The Bronx continues to lead the city with an abortion ratio of 47%. The largest drop in the abortion ratio was in Brooklyn, which saw the ratio drop from 37% to 34%. Staten Island continues to have the lowest ratio at 29%.


Quote:The Abortion Surveillance report published by the CDC, for which the latest abortion numbers are for 2011, show there were 76,251 abortions in New York City that year.
For that total, 9,550 abortions were of white babies, which is 12.5% of the total; 35,188 babies were black (46.1% of total); 23,959 were Hispanic (31.4%); and another 7,554 “other” abortions, 9.9%, which includes Asians and Native Americans, as well as those babies not reported by race.
Abortions of black and Hispanic babies combined totaled 59,147 – that is 77.56% of the total abortions in NYC.
Blacks, according to the U.S. Census Bureau, make up 25.5% of the population of New York City, and Hispanics comprise 28.6% of the NYC population. Despite those population percentages, blacks make up 46.1% of the abortions, and Hispanics, 31.4%.
While whites comprise 44% of the NYC population, they made up 12.5% of total abortions in that city.
That total for one city, 76,251 babies killed, surpasses the number of abortions of any state reporting, according to the CDC.


RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - Vas Deferens - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 06:38 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: I have posted this study before when it was in the news.    I found it again here please disregard the site.   There are links within the article to the study and numbers.    It's In other places it will just take longer to find so in an effort to keep the discussion moving here it is

http://www.lifenews.com/2014/12/01/black-lives-matter-78-of-abortions-in-new-york-city-were-done-on-black-hispanic-babies/

I would contend this merely shows we need better access to birth control, regardless of race or socioeconomic standing.  If your main concern is with the act of abortion itself, then why not start with giving more universal access to birth control rather than stigmatizing a practice others believe is their right?   

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - StLucieBengal - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 06:50 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: I would contend this merely shows we need better access to birth control, regardless of race or socioeconomic standing.  If your main concern is with the act of abortion itself, then why not start with giving more universal access to birth control rather than stigmatizing a practice others believe is their right?   

Maybe stop putting PP in poor/minority communities. That would be a start to ensuring more of them live.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - BmorePat87 - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 07:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Maybe stop putting PP in poor/minority communities.    That would be a start to ensuring more of them live.

That assumes more abortions are performed than health services. 

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - StLucieBengal - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 07:14 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That assumes more abortions are performed than health services. 

One thing is certain.... More children will live. And no other "health service" outweighs the life of a child.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - BmorePat87 - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 07:22 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: One thing is certain.... More children will live.

That assumes more abortions are performed than health services that keep pregnancies healthy. 

I trust you've done your homework.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - Vas Deferens - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 07:02 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Maybe stop putting PP in poor/minority communities.    That would be a start to ensuring more of them live.


How would that change access to birth control?  If anything, wouldn't that make the disparity greater?

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - BmorePat87 - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 07:27 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: How would that change access to birth control?  If anything, wouldn't that make the disparity greater?

I think he just wants more births in general, whether by stopping abortion or stopping contraceptive use. 

Then he can complain about government spending to help the single mothers who can't afford their kids.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - Vas Deferens - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 07:36 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I think he just wants more births in general, whether by stopping abortion or stopping contraceptive use. 

Then he can complain about government spending to help the single mothers who can't afford their kids.

This is exactly where this conversation always ends up, but we never get any clarity around that piece.  Everytime we try to advance past this point, we're unable to have additional discussions about population control or income disparity.  We just get another thread, rehash and end up here once again. 

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - StLucieBengal - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 07:25 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: That assumes more abortions are performed than health services that keep pregnancies healthy. 

I trust you've done your homework.

(01-19-2016, 07:27 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: How would that change access to birth control?  If anything, wouldn't that make the disparity greater?

(01-19-2016, 07:36 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I think he just wants more births in general, whether by stopping abortion or stopping contraceptive use. 

Then he can complain about government spending to help the single mothers who can't afford their kids.

(01-19-2016, 07:42 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: This is exactly where this conversation always ends up, but we never get any clarity around that piece.  Everytime we try to advance past this point, we're unable to have additional discussions about population control or income disparity.  We just get another thread, rehash and end up here once again. 

So why don't we just offer the poor birth control and health services without offering abortions.... Why do we need PP for that.... Health clinics can do the same thing without offering abortions on demand.

As far as population control .... Why do you think we need it? Maybe the problem isn't new births .... It's length of life. Maybe you would be more comfortable with a Logan's Run scenario?

You guys want to bring up gov money for single mothers..... Maybe we should start promoting families again .... 2 parent homes.

No one ever said stop birth control before pregnancy. Take all the pills you want.... use condoms.

But hey tell me all about your population control concerns? I don't mind discussing this at all.

RE: Sam Brownback cuts medicaid funding to Planned Parentood - Vas Deferens - 01-19-2016

(01-19-2016, 08:11 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So why don't we just offer the poor birth control and health services without offering abortions....    Why do we need PP for that....    Health clinics can do the same thing without offering abortions on demand.    

First.  Lets stop ostracizing PP, when the real problem in your mind is abortions themselves.  Your problem is not with PP as a whole, its their fulfilling a specific service you staunchly oppose.

I'm sure you would agree that if targeted and concerted efforts were made to give unequivocal, universally free access to birth control (all forms); the number of abortions would decrease inversely.  In that scenario, the market wouldn't require PP to the extent it does today.  Like it or not, some women would prefer not to have a child at certain times of their lives.  If a greater % were on the pill or IUD, the numbers of possible abortions go down.  


As stated, PP is merely filing a gap created by the current state of health care inequality, specifically access to womens reproductive health care.  Poor people don't have the same access as higher socioeconomic classes.  Any conversation about abortion and reproductive rights is inextricably linked to health care inequality.  

Obviously there is no way to completely end abortions.  There will always be some scenarios we all agree where it is a needed and available procedure.  We may disagree on what those are, but I guarantee you that EVERYONE's goal would be to decrease the overall market demand for abortions as much as possible.  First step though, universal free access to all forms of birth control.   


Quote:As far as population control ....  Why do you think we need it?   Maybe the problem isn't new births ....  It's length of life.    Maybe you would be more comfortable with a Logan's Run scenario? 

Problem is both new births and length of life, its both a economic and resource issue.  Many of the problems we have domestically stem from economic inequality, internationally many are resource driven (Syria).  The only one we can control currently is the new births piece.  I'm not familiar with the Logan's Run model, but if you're saying we should pull the plug earlier on elderly people with a low quality of life, that seems like a real tough sell.  

Quote:You guys want to bring up gov money for single mothers.....  Maybe we should start promoting families again .... 2 parent homes.      

Families would be great.  But many families still live below the poverty line, with only 2 or 3 children.  2 parent homes are obviously ideal.  Family planning in conjunction with that is even better.

Quote:No one ever said stop birth control before pregnancy.    Take all the pills you want.... use condoms.   

Good to hear.  Keep in mind its the pills / IUD's that need to be accessible as they have been proven to be the most effective.  I would also suggest more federal research on the topic so pills / IUD's can become more effective for a larger % of the population.  There will always be a subset of women who cannot use these form because of forces beyond their control.  Instead of stigmatizing them for needing access to abortions, why not help advance the science in this issue.

Quote:But hey tell me all about your population control concerns?    I don't mind discussing this at all.

See above.  Too many people as it is.