+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive)
+---- Thread: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' (/Thread-Trump-bans-transgender-people-from-serving-in-U-S-military-in-any-capacity)
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 12:36 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Exactly being a vet is stressful enough we do not need add a fragile group to that amount of stress.
Keep making my point.
You wouldn't know how stressful military life is or how fragile other people whom you've never met are. According to your source, transgender individuals join the military at a higher rate than the general population. Which means they have bigger balls than someone who thinks they shouldn't be in the military, but was too much of a coward to serve themselves like . . . Trump.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - RICHMONDBENGAL_07 - 08-13-2017
(08-12-2017, 05:03 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: So we should allow people who suffer from high suicide rates into the military? Shouldn't we be concerned if they are one of the 4 out of 10 who will kill themselves? Soldiers already have enough stress.... if 4 out of 10 are coming in likely to commit suicide then how much will that grow once under the stress of being a soldier? And it's expensive to train a soldier..... why are we investing in people with such a high suicide rate coming through the door?
Take out the transgender part of this and let's look at if this is a good investment of our time and resources on people who are likely to kill themselves.
I would respond in length, but most of the responses have been posted by others and probably better than I could have. Keep the SEAL operator in mind. :andy:
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - StLucieBengal - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 03:06 AM)RICHMONDBENGAL_07 Wrote: I would respond in length, but most of the responses have been posted by others and probably better than I could have. Keep the SEAL operator in mind. :andy:
There are always tokens in any group. Still doesn't change the 40% suicide rate.
It sucks for the 60% but the numbers don't work when 4/10 are suicide risks
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - StLucieBengal - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 02:29 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You wouldn't know how stressful military life is or how fragile other people whom you've never met are. According to your source, transgender individuals join the military at a higher rate than the general population. Which means they have bigger balls than someone who thinks they shouldn't be in the military, but was too much of a coward to serve themselves like . . . Trump.
Being a nurse prac. in the military it was probably easy for you to not worry about transgenders and your life wasn't on the line if one had a bad day and got depressed. I know plenty of vets and haven't met one who wanted to serve with transgenders. And they didn't want to know if any of them were gay.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 04:53 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Being a nurse prac. in the military it was probably easy for you to not worry about transgenders and your life wasn't on the line if one had a bad day and got depressed. I know plenty of vets and haven't met one who wanted to serve with transgenders. And they didn't want to know if any of them were gay.
The Army has Battalion PAs, no Battalion NPs.
1) Anyone with any Army experience knows this.
2) I've been crystal clear about what I did in the Army, but I'm not surprised you reached the wrong conclusion after reading specific information once again.
Furthermore, as a PA I was assigned to Infantry units. My life certainly was on the line if someone, regardless of gender, had a "bad day." The fact you don't realize this and are making ignorant statements completely devoid of any truth based in reality underscores my previous statements you (and Trump) lack the experience to have an informed opinion.
Additionally, I was an infantryman my first decade in the Army before becoming a PA. From Private to Sergeant First Class. Rifleman to Platoon Sergeant. In 3rd Ranger Battalion, 4th Ranger Training Battalion, and the 101st.
Which means I know a helluva lot more vets and their views than you ever will. I can tell you there are many things we didn't want to do, but we did because of discipline.
I can also tell you I wasn't exactly crazy about the prospect of spooning with a gay guy during Ranger School to stay warm during the winter. Why? Because it made me feel uncomfortable. I wanted to discriminate against another American and take away their freedom to serve their country because of my feelings. I realized the problem wasn't with the other person's sexual orientation. The problem was my mental weakness with knowing their sexual orientation. So I realized trying to deny someone else the freedom to serve their country based upon my mental weakness is 100% wrong. If you or the vets you pretend to know are uncomfortable with homosexuals or transgenders serving in the military, I know you and your imaginary friends are mentally weak beyond a shadow of a doubt. As I just explained, I also understand why you and your imaginary friends are wrong.
Anyone who has ever seen a war movie knows medics depend on infantrymen for security which means you have less credibility than a casual observer of Hacksaw Ridge.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 04:49 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: There are always tokens in any group. Still doesn't change the 40% suicide rate.
It sucks for the 60% but the numbers don't work when 4/10 are suicide risks
Groups don't volunteer for the military, individuals do. An individual's medical fitness is determined by their individual medical history.
If we were to use absolute numbers, the number of white males in the military who successfully commit suicide far exceed the number of successful suicides committed by transgenders. So if we didn't want to waste money on training we should discriminate against white males IOT save the most money.
But, discrimination based upon gender and sexual orientation is wrong.
I think you're done here. "I don't even know why you post."
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - Griever - 08-13-2017
(08-12-2017, 09:46 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Google away. It's not my responsibility to hold your hand.
it actually is
you made the claim, so the burden of proof is on you
if you can't provide the proof, might want to keep your mouth shut and your opinion to yourself next time
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - BmorePat87 - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 12:36 AM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Exactly being a vet is stressful enough we do not need add a fragile group to that amount of stress.
Keep making my point.
I wouldn't call veterans fragile.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - StLucieBengal - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 11:05 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: I wouldn't call veterans fragile.
You said 20 vets commit suicide a day.
No reason to have groups of people with high suicide rate going into a the military where you get increased suicide rate over the general population.
The only reason anyone wants a high suicide group in there is for political nonsense. If these were just regular people with a high suicide rate they would be rejected.
Unless transgendered are somehow immune to suicidal tendencies.... in which case there is no reason to pretend they are the opposite sex.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 12:38 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You said 20 vets commit suicide a day.
No reason to have groups of people with high suicide rate going into a the military where you get increased suicide rate over the general population.
The only reason anyone wants a high suicide group in there is for political nonsense. If these were just regular people with a high suicide rate they would be rejected.
Unless transgendered are somehow immune to suicidal tendencies.... in which case there is no reason to pretend they are the opposite sex.
Individual freedoms are "political nonsense"? Spoken like a true faux Libertarian.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - StLucieBengal - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 01:04 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Individual freedoms are "political nonsense"? Spoken like a true faux Libertarian.
It's not individual freedom when your suicidal concerns put at risk others
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 01:24 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: It's not individual freedom when your suicidal concerns put at risk others
Do you have any evidence to support your nonsense?
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - StLucieBengal - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 02:56 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Do you have any evidence to support your nonsense?
Support the 40% suicide rate? That's from a transgender groups own study.
If a normal man walks into army recruiter and has a 40% likelihood for suicide is he getting into the army?
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - GMDino - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 03:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Support the 40% suicide rate? That's from a transgender groups own study.
If a normal man walks into army recruiter and has a 40% likelihood for suicide is he getting into the army?
Based on absolutely everything presented so far (except one person's bias) yes if they pass all the tests. Mental and physical.
Wait a second I'll just turn to my right and tell this wall instead....
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 03:18 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Support the 40% suicide rate? That's from a transgender groups own study.
If a normal man walks into army recruiter and has a 40% likelihood for suicide is he getting into the army?
You claimed a service member's potential suicide ideation puts other service member's lives at risk. Do you have any evidence to support your unsubstantiated claim?
I have known several soldiers who have committed suicide. None ever put my life in danger.
I've already given you the specifics you requested to answer your question. Anyone with a history of suicide ideation doesn't qualify medically. If a person doesn't have an individual history of suicide ideation then they aren't disqualified. Pretty simple. Spelled out in AR 40-501 in black and white.
Also, a survey which indicates 40% of the respondents to a survey attempted suicide doesn't mean everyone within that group has a 40% chance of committing suicide. It's too subtle a point for you to understand apparently.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - StLucieBengal - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 04:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: Based on absolutely everything presented so far (except one person's bias) yes if they pass all the tests. Mental and physical.
Wait a second I'll just turn to my right and tell this wall instead....
http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html
Quote:e. Suicide, history of attempted or suicidal behavior. [
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - StLucieBengal - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 05:00 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: You claimed a service member's potential suicide ideation puts other service member's lives at risk. Do you have any evidence to support your unsubstantiated claim?
I have known several soldiers who have committed suicide. None ever put my life in danger.
I've already given you the specifics you requested to answer your question. Anyone with a history of suicide ideation doesn't qualify medically. If a person doesn't have an individual history of suicide ideation then they aren't disqualified. Pretty simple. Spelled out in AR 40-501 in black and white.
Also, a survey which indicates 40% of the respondents to a survey attempted suicide doesn't mean everyone within that group has a 40% chance of committing suicide. It's too subtle a point for you to understand apparently.
Neither does your token handful of suicidal people you seem ok to work with and put your life in their hands. Just because it's good enough for you doesn't mean it should be ok for everyone to risk their lives.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 06:21 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Neither does your token handful of suicidal people you seem ok to work with and put your life in their hands. Just because it's good enough for you doesn't mean it should be ok for everyone to risk their lives.
So no evidence. Just bullshit claims.
I never claimed my experience was evidence. I claimed my experience was my experience. You have neither evidence or experience. Just bullshit claims.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 06:19 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html
Why are you quoting military.com when I already gave you the primary source, AR 40-501?
You just quoted what I've already told you several times.
RE: Trump bans transgender people from serving in U.S. military 'in any capacity' - StLucieBengal - 08-13-2017
(08-13-2017, 06:44 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Why are you quoting military.com when I already gave you the primary source, AR 40-501?
You just quoted what I've already told you several times.
That suicidal people shouldn't be soldiers. Yes.
You could have just saved us all time and said yes Lucie I agree.