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RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Belsnickel - 09-25-2019

Just for a fun thought about history, anyone know what Article 2 of Nixon's Articles of Impeachment were about?


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Dill - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 02:03 PM)GMDino Wrote: "trust me"

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/trump-ive-done-nothing-wrong-creates-impeachment-defense-task-force
Trump campaign manager Brad Parscale called the impeachment drive a “hoax,” and said “pure hatred” is driving Democrats.

“Because of their pure hatred for President Trump, desperate Democrats and the salivating media already had determined their mission: take out the President. The fact is that the president wants to fight the corruption in Washington, where the Bidens, the Clintons, and other career politicians have abused their power for personal gain for decades. The facts prove the President did nothing wrong. This is just another hoax from Democrats and the media, contributing to the landslide re-election of President Trump in 2020,” he said.

. . . Their goal has always been to silence YOU, they want to steal YOUR voice and YOUR vote.


To fight back, we just launched our Official Impeachment Defense Task Force, and I need strong American Patriots, like YOU, to join me.

As one of the Charter members of my Official Impeachment Defense Task Force, you will be representing our Impeachment Defense front for all of your state.

There it is--the Cohn-style, mirror-image-attack defense.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - BmorePat87 - 09-25-2019

The White House accidentally included House Democratic Leaders in an email sent to Congressional GOP that detailed their talking points for the transcript.

They then tried to recall the email, which doesn't work if it was already read lol


https://theweek.com/speedreads/867641/white-house-accidentally-emailed-ukraine-talking-points-nancy-pelosi


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - michaelsean - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 02:55 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: The White House accidentally included House Democratic Leaders in an email sent to Congressional GOP that detailed their talking points for the transcript.

They then tried to recall the email, which doesn't work if it was already read lol


https://theweek.com/speedreads/867641/white-house-accidentally-emailed-ukraine-talking-points-nancy-pelosi

Post #125.  And Dino even made a funny.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Dill - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 02:22 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Just for a fun thought about history, anyone know what Article 2 of Nixon's Articles of Impeachment were about?

I am guessing it was about this: https://watergate.info/impeachment/articles-of-impeachment

Using the powers of the office of President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in disregard of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has repeatedly engaged in conduct violating the constitutional rights of citizens, impairing the due and proper administration of justice and the conduct of lawful inquiries, or contravening the laws governing agencies of the executive branch and the purposed of these agencies.

Article I, is about Nixon's use of official powers to obstruct investigation into the break in (which he ordered or allowed), ordering witnesses to lie, etc.  While Article 2 is about how Nixon used his official powers to violate the RIGHTS OF OTHER CITIZENS in impeding justice, e.g. by using the IRS to get dirt on opponents and ordering FBI surveillance for purposes unrelated to national security. Article three is about withholding subpoenaed evidence (obstructing/denying oversight, violation of separation of powers).

In your view, does that distill the essential difference of 2 from 1 and 3?

Closest application of Article 2 to Trump now would be the principles driving supporting points 4 and 5:
  1. He has failed to take care that the laws were faithfully executed by failing to act when he knew or had reason to know that his close subordinates endeavoured to impede and frustrate lawful inquiries by duly constituted executive, judicial and legislative entities concerning the unlawful entry into the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee, and the cover-up thereof, and concerning other unlawful activities including those relating to the confirmation of Richard Kleindienst as Attorney General of the United States, the electronic surveillance of private citizens, the break-in into the offices of Dr. Lewis Fielding, and the campaign financing practices of the Committee to Re-elect the President.
  2. In disregard of the rule of law, he knowingly misused the executive power by interfering with agencies of the executive branch, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Criminal Division, and the Office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force, of the Department of Justice, and the Central Intelligence Agency, in violation of his duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.



RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - GMDino - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 03:03 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Post #125.  And Dino even made a funny.

Always room for humor. Smirk


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Vas Deferens - 09-25-2019

Clown is talking about his pageants right now. ***** clown.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Nately120 - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 02:21 PM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Depends on the narrative. The narrative behind Clinton's was that he was being impeached for getting some side action. His approval was also north for 50% for 3 years prior to impeachment.

I can tell you the Trump narrative now...Congress, which no one likes, are after him because he's awesome.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - GMDino - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 03:21 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: Clown is talking about his pageants right now.  ***** clown.

And just flat out lying about Biden's son.

He's such a coward he must be shaking.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - GMDino - 09-25-2019

He's completely lost.

Poll numbers, economy, all over the place with attacks on Pelosi and Obama.

Twitter is gonna be amazing in about an hour.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - SunsetBengal - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 03:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: He's completely lost.

Poll numbers, economy, all over the place with attacks on Pelosi and Obama.

Twitter is gonna be amazing in about an hour.

You feel that nice, cool breeze?  That's the turbulence from another Democrat swing and miss attempt to "get" Trump.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - GMDino - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 03:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You feel that nice, cool breeze?  That's the turbulence from another Democrat swing and miss attempt to "get" Trump.

Sure it's not the air coming from between Republicans who defend/believe Trump ears?  Mellow


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 03:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You feel that nice, cool breeze?  That's the turbulence from another Democrat swing and miss attempt to "get" Trump.

I know this labels me a "Trump supporter" among our more black and white world view posters, but based on what I've read I don't see the smoking gun they need to successfully impeach Trump.  What went on was certainly shady, but I don't think it's going to get the Dems anywhere near where they're trying to go.

I said it a long time ago and it's more true now than ever; the constant talk of impeachment from many Dems has made actually impeaching Trump nearly impossible without solid evidence of an act egregious enough to outrage the moderate citizens of this country.  I don't see this being it.  We certainly don't have all the facts yet, and what's to come may certainly change this, but I see impeachment proceedings working in Trump's favor long term.  I said this before, this will be political theatre at it's highest and Trump excels in political theatre.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - GMDino - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 03:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I know this labels me a "Trump supporter" among our more black and white world view posters, but based on what I've read I don't see the smoking gun they need to successfully impeach Trump.  What went on was certainly shady, but I don't think it's going to get the Dems anywhere near where they're trying to go.

I said it a long time ago and it's more true now than ever; the constant talk of impeachment from many Dems has made actually impeaching Trump nearly impossible without solid evidence of an act egregious enough to outrage the moderate citizens of this country.  I don't see this being it.  We certainly don't have all the facts yet, and what's to come may certainly change this, but I see impeachment proceedings working in Trump's favor long term.  I said this before, this will be political theatre at it's highest and Trump excels in political theatre.

Oddly it's not up to the citizens.  It's up to congress.  Even bfine said not ask the public to do their job.

Trump is usually good with forcing the agenda...but he's losing it.  You can tell when he speaks now.

Hang in there though.  It'll get interesting.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 04:00 PM)GMDino Wrote: Oddly it's not up to the citizens.  It's up to congress.  Even bfine said not ask the public to do their job.

Sure is.  I wonder why you thought it was pertinent to mention as no one has disputed it.


Quote:Trump is usually good with forcing the agenda...but he's losing it.  You can tell when he speaks now.

Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

Quote:Hang in there though.  It'll get interesting.

That's one word for it.  As an aside, here's an article from a clear Trump supporter on The Guardian that largely agrees with the main point I've been making.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/25/beware-democrats-impeaching-trump-will-be-a-disaster


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - GMDino - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 04:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sure is.  I wonder why you thought it was pertinent to mention as no one has disputed it.

YOU are the one who said:

(09-25-2019, 03:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I said it a long time ago and it's more true now than ever; the constant talk of impeachment from many Dems has made actually impeaching Trump nearly impossible without solid evidence of an act egregious enough to outrage the moderate citizens of this country.  I don't see this being it.  We certainly don't have all the facts yet, and what's to come may certainly change this, but I see impeachment proceedings working in Trump's favor long term.  I said this before, this will be political theatre at it's highest and Trump excels in political theatre.

So YOU explain why you said it if no one disputed it.

This latest Trump thing really has you off your "game".



(09-25-2019, 04:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Sounds like you're trying to convince yourself, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

No. I just observe and listen to him speak. He's all over the place. Sounds more lost than usual.


(09-25-2019, 04:02 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: That's one word for it.  As an aside, here's an article from a clear Trump supporter on The Guardian that largely agrees with the main point I've been making.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/25/beware-democrats-impeaching-trump-will-be-a-disaster

Oh good... you found something on the internet that backs up your preconceived ideas. Mellow

I didn't know that was possible! Ninja


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 04:09 PM)GMDino Wrote: YOU are the one who said:


So YOU explain why you said it if no one disputed it.

This latest Trump thing really has you off your "game".

It's a shame I have to explain this, but nuanced thought has never been your strong suit.  Successful impeachment will require a political climate that allows it to occur.  If the general public sentiment isn't solidly behind impeachment then the Senate will never vote to convict, sans the smoking gun I've constantly mentioned.  The Dems near constant calls for impeachment have made that political climate nearly impossible to achieve.  If you have nothing egregious and obvious to hang your hat on the Dems will lose this, and possibly lose big.



Quote:No.  I just observe and listen to him speak.  He's all over the place.  Sounds more lost than usual.

Sure, in your clearly unbiased opinion that you are completely entitled to.


Quote:Oh good... you found something on the internet that backs up your preconceived ideas.  Mellow

I didn't know that was possible!   Ninja

Preconceived being analogous to logically inferred based on facts and experience I suppose.  Yes, I found a person on a far left leaning site who raises the exact same points I have made.  The fact that this is significant and completely eludes you is rather telling.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Dill - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 04:19 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: It's a shame I have to explain this, but nuanced thought has never been your strong suit. 

What else could you expect from the black and white worldview of that dupe, "Shanghai Dino"?


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - CJD - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 03:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I know this labels me a "Trump supporter" among our more black and white world view posters, but based on what I've read I don't see the smoking gun they need to successfully impeach Trump.  What went on was certainly shady, but I don't think it's going to get the Dems anywhere near where they're trying to go.

I said it a long time ago and it's more true now than ever; the constant talk of impeachment from many Dems has made actually impeaching Trump nearly impossible without solid evidence of an act egregious enough to outrage the moderate citizens of this country.  I don't see this being it.  We certainly don't have all the facts yet, and what's to come may certainly change this, but I see impeachment proceedings working in Trump's favor long term.  I said this before, this will be political theatre at it's highest and Trump excels in political theatre.

I'm going to be 100% candid here. If I didn't already want Trump impeached, this issue would not be what changed my mind. Honestly, I just don't really see why this is considered a bigger problem than anything else Trump does. Trump has been trying to strong arm other nations for his entire presidency, so this is just another one of his "I think politics are exactly like shady New York Business practices where I can just intimidate other countries into doing what I want them to do" tactics. He probably didn't even think twice about it when he was doing it.

Now, obviously, it will depend heavily on the fall out and details of this whistle blower, but this is just another thing Trump can plead ignorance on and let it float away.

Do they really expect Americans to give a single shit about our President withholding aid from Ukraine, regardless of his motive or reasoning? I honestly can't think of a single thing your average American could possibly care less about. I could even see some Americans thinking it's smart to withhold aid to one of those 'Communist countries.'

Impeach Trump because he's incompetent, embarrassing, senile, idiotic, narcissistic, incapable of telling a truth to save his ***** life or because he is simply unfit for the most powerful single political position in the entire world.

Don't try and "gotcha" him with some pedantic whistle blowing that most Americans probably don't give a shit about...

That said, I'm glad something happened to FINALLY get the Dems off their asses and start the impeachment inquiry in earnest. It's about time.


RE: Whistle-Blower’s Complaint Is Said to Involve Multiple Acts by Trump - Belsnickel - 09-25-2019

(09-25-2019, 03:56 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: I know this labels me a "Trump supporter" among our more black and white world view posters, but based on what I've read I don't see the smoking gun they need to successfully impeach Trump.  What went on was certainly shady, but I don't think it's going to get the Dems anywhere near where they're trying to go.

I said it a long time ago and it's more true now than ever; the constant talk of impeachment from many Dems has made actually impeaching Trump nearly impossible without solid evidence of an act egregious enough to outrage the moderate citizens of this country.  I don't see this being it.  We certainly don't have all the facts yet, and what's to come may certainly change this, but I see impeachment proceedings working in Trump's favor long term.  I said this before, this will be political theatre at it's highest and Trump excels in political theatre.

I don't entirely disagree right now. I mean, what he did is impeachable. He violated the law even based on the memo about the phone call he made. That being said, it's not something the general public will see easily or care much about. This will certainly be political theater. The Democrats must spend their time wisely during this inquiry making their case to the American public before the vote in the House. They need to make their case so solid that any Republican voting against impeachment will be seen as nothing more than a partisan actor that only their base would accept the actions of. That's a tough uphill climb, no doubt.

All of that being said, I do find you a bit too dismissive of what is occurring here. There is at least one, possibly two, violations of campaign finance law laid out in the memo released today, which also means an abuse of power as he used the office to carry them out. Even when taken alone, those are impeachable offenses. I do agree, though, that the Democrats have made is more difficult to act on them by the way they have acted since he was elected. That and their objections to the impeachment inquiry of Clinton.