(05-09-2016, 07:08 AM)GMDino Wrote: We live in one that is trying to make up excuses for how it might not be rape...because men are just so downtrodden and women have all the advantages.

Or maybe just this board has a rape culture.

(05-09-2016, 08:00 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: No one is making excuses for how it might not be rape. Actually people here are asking if a scenario is rape (which obviously isn't making excuses for it), which every scenario that I remember reading in this thread isn't rape since drunken consent is still consent (that's why Fred never wants to reply to that). You and a few other people on this board just have a weird fascination with making every little thing rape when it's not (at least in this thread). No, we don't live in a rape culture, and this board doesn't have rape culture in it, but you can keep believing there is one if you like living in that fantasy world.

(05-05-2016, 07:44 AM)GMDino Wrote:   

Our legal system takes it very seriously.

"Rape culture" refers to men still thinking a woman is "asking for it" when she dresses the "wrong" way or is too drunk to say no clearly.

(05-09-2016, 09:11 AM)GMDino Wrote:

This was my first response to this thread:



We have a rape culture.  this thread, and your post, shows that.

(05-07-2016, 12:05 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: How drunk is "too drunk to consent", because I can't link you the case since it didn't make it past the grand jury (plus it was about a year ago, and who remembers the case names when you're on a grand jury).

(05-09-2016, 09:41 AM)fredtoast Wrote: "Too drunk to consent" is when the person is not clear enough in their mind to know what they are doing.  It is a pretty simple concept.  The facts in each case will answer the question.

If the case you mentioned did not even make it through the grand jury then clearly the victim was not too drunk to consent.

(05-09-2016, 09:36 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Like I said. You live in a fantasy world. Nowhere in my post says that it's not rape if the girl is too drunk to say no. It clearly says she gave drunken consent. You do understand what that means, right? So, let me say it again. We don't live in a rape culture obviously. Not in this thread, and not in this country.

(05-09-2016, 09:46 AM)GMDino Wrote: Right we live in a culture that tries to make excuses for how it couldn't have been rape.

Completely different.  

(05-09-2016, 09:47 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Only when it's not actually rape. Like I said you live in a fantasy world.

(05-09-2016, 09:48 AM)GMDino Wrote: And it's not rape when someone can make an excuse for it like she gave "drunken consent", he was drunk too, she "dressed like a hooker"...I'm sure there are more that I missed in this thread.

(05-09-2016, 09:49 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: If she gave consent it's not rape. No one said it's an excuse to rape someone because "he was drunk too" or "she dressed like a hooker". Fantasy world.

(05-09-2016, 09:52 AM)GMDino Wrote: Except in this thread....where it was said any accusation of rape should be under suspicion in those circumstances.

You and some others sound like you really like rape though.  More power to you I guess.

(05-09-2016, 09:56 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Any accusation of any crime should always be under suspicion, because I believe in something called "innocent until proven guilty". Personally I wouldn't want to go back to a time where there were witch hunts.

I'm not the one who's trying to make every little thing into rape. Seems like you live in a rape fantasy world.

(05-09-2016, 10:03 AM)GMDino Wrote: All I have ever said in this entire thread is rape should be taken seriously but some people want to create situations where we can question if it is "really" rape.  All of those situations tend to be where the woman is "dress wrong" or "drunk" and the poor man is wrongly accused.

So..."rape culture".

(05-09-2016, 09:45 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: So black out drunk.

(05-06-2016, 10:14 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: No, we don't live in a rape culture. It's illegal to rape someone, and in a lot of cases even if you're an alleged rapist there will be a lot of negative consequences. The extreme minority that believes that the way someone dresses should factor in if she claims she was raped isn't proof of rape culture. There is no judge or legal system in America (or the first world for that matter) that factors that in.

(05-06-2016, 12:20 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Nice story. Thanks for pointing out that there are even rules in the courts that defendants can't even talk about what kind of clothes the plaintiff was wearing.

(05-06-2016, 01:40 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: You keep bringing up if someone says "no" then it's rape. Obviously no one is disagreeing with you on this point. You keep bringing that up when people are talking about a completely different scenario. It's pretty irrelevant to the conversation tbh.

People are talking about if they gave consent and then regretted it later it, and saying it was rape.

(05-06-2016, 01:42 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: 1 racist is too many, but having racists in a country doesn't make the country racist. Don't you agree?

I don't see anyone arguing for excuses of rape. Nice strawman.

(05-06-2016, 01:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Those arguments are not an excuse for rape. Those arguments are saying peoples terms of rape is too broad. Rape happens only when a person (or people) have sex with another person who doesn't want to have sex (or is unconscious and didn't give consent). It's not rape if two people are drunk and both want to have sex, and one of them regrets it in the morning and says it's rape. No one has said what type of clothes they are wearing was the reason why they were raped, or is saying that it's reason enough to rape them. That again is a strawman.

(05-06-2016, 02:41 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: One massive straw man right there. The first post is obviously talking about rape culture not rape itself, and none of those are excusing the act of rape they're saying they disagree that it's rape if the woman was drunk/ regret it later.

(05-06-2016, 02:49 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Obviously your definition of rape is far too broad, because if a woman has sex while drunk and consents to it isn't rape. Even if she regrets it later.

(05-06-2016, 02:59 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Here's proof why your defintion of rape is too broad. There is no court case in the USA to ever convict someone of rape for having consensual sex with someone who's drunk, and then regrets it later.

(05-06-2016, 03:04 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: The first part of your post is a straw man. No one in this thread has blamed the victim. As for the second part only psycopaths believe that they are owed sex. No normal peson believes that.

(05-06-2016, 03:21 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: And had consensual sex, and regretted it later. That is not rape.

Not one person said it was ok to rape a drunk woman, or a woman that was dressed "wrong", or even said it was their fault because they were drunk or dressed "wrong".

(05-06-2016, 05:21 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I'm pretty sure you have good enough reading comprehension to know that he's not saying it's ok to rape someone for what they're wearing, or even if it was their fault because they were wearing something "wrong".

(05-06-2016, 05:39 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: He's not saying that you can judge if a woman was raped or not based on her clothes. He's saying that the chances that she was actually raped goes down depending on her clothes (what I completely disagree with). That's stretching his silly comment to the extreme trying to say that he said you can judge if rape occurred or not depending on her clothes.

(05-06-2016, 07:26 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Being drunk isn't the same as being incapacitated though. If the person was passed out that would fall under incapacitation, which are too separate things.

(05-06-2016, 07:31 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: And being unconscious isn't the same as being drunk and giving consent.

(05-06-2016, 08:23 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: So, if both the man and the woman drunk are they raping each other since consent can't be given?

There is no court in America that would convict a rape even if there was proof the person was drunk, but gave consent at the time. Unless there was proof that they were passed out drunk.

Saying drunken sex is rape degrades the experiences of real rape victims.

(05-06-2016, 08:54 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Oh btw you can give consent to a contract if you can understand the terms of the contract while drunk. You would have to be passing out to not be able to "understand the terms of the contract" if you're giving consent to sex.

(05-06-2016, 09:04 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: It would be if drunken sex was rape, but it isn't rape. A prosecutor wouldn't even take the case if they would have to provide the court with evidence that you consented to have sex, but was drunk. He would probably laugh you out of the office.

(05-06-2016, 10:53 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: You know what the funniest thing about this thread is to me? I was on a grand jury not even too long ago, and the jury was hearing a rape case and the prosecutor kept saying "You have to remember drunken consent is still consent". I'm sure if that wasn't true the prosecutor needs to be disbarred. So, this is why I'm directing this comment to you Fred. Should I file a complaint on the prosecutor or was the information that they were giving the grand jury correct?

(05-07-2016, 10:51 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Well considering drunken consent is still consent it isn't rape. So obviously something that's not rape couldn't be called rape.

(05-07-2016, 11:36 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Ineresting articles. The most interesting part is how neither of them said that drunken consent isn't consent. Its almost like it's a straw man.

(05-07-2016, 12:05 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: How drunk is "too drunk to consent", because I can't link you the case since it didn't make it past the grand jury (plus it was about a year ago, and who remembers the case names when you're on a grand jury).

Also why does it matter if both parties are "too drunk to consent"?

(05-08-2016, 03:27 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I think it was made pretty clear that we don't live in one.

(05-09-2016, 05:20 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Well thankfully no one shares the same sentiment as the massive straw man you just made.

(05-09-2016, 08:00 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: No one is making excuses for how it might not be rape. Actually people here are asking if a scenario is rape (which obviously isn't making excuses for it), which every scenario that I remember reading in this thread isn't rape since drunken consent is still consent (that's why Fred never wants to reply to that). You and a few other people on this board just have a weird fascination with making every little thing rape when it's not (at least in this thread). No, we don't live in a rape culture, and this board doesn't have rape culture in it, but you can keep believing there is one if you like living in that fantasy world.

(05-09-2016, 09:36 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Like I said. You live in a fantasy world. Nowhere in my post says that it's not rape if the girl is too drunk to say no. It clearly says she gave drunken consent. You do understand what that means, right? So, let me say it again. We don't live in a rape culture obviously. Not in this thread, and not in this country.

(05-09-2016, 09:47 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Only when it's not actually rape. Like I said you live in a fantasy world.

(05-09-2016, 09:49 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: If she gave consent it's not rape. No one said it's an excuse to rape someone because "he was drunk too" or "she dressed like a hooker". Fantasy world.

(05-09-2016, 09:56 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: Any accusation of any crime should always be under suspicion, because I believe in something called "innocent until proven guilty". Personally I wouldn't want to go back to a time where there were witch hunts.

I'm not the one who's trying to make every little thing into rape. Seems like you live in a rape fantasy world.

(05-09-2016, 10:12 AM)Brownshoe Wrote: There's nothing wrong with questioning anything. If the conclusion is it's not rape, but it really is rape then we have a problem. None of those scenarios came to that conclusion when it's actually rape though. Obviously that means there is no rape culture.

(05-09-2016, 10:52 AM)GMDino Wrote:

(05-09-2016, 10:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If you use that term you have to make sure it is based on more than just the alleged victim's claims of loss of memory.

(05-09-2016, 11:00 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: Page 8 and we're still discussing how drunk and how slutty she can be dressed.

Still not discussing changing male behavior.