+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive)
+---- Thread: Covington High School Issue (/Thread-Covington-High-School-Issue)
RE: Covington High School Issue - Beaker - 01-25-2019
(01-24-2019, 08:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If you agree that the kids were acting disrespectful to the native American then you have to agree they have a privilege
No, I really don't have to agree since all three parties were acting disrespectful.
Quote:because a major portion of the country (and members here) see absolutely nothing wrong with what they were doing.
And just as many people see nothing wrong with what the NA was doing either.
Quote:It is a privilege to get away with that sort of behavior just because so many people in this country understand the Christian religion of the majority but know nothing about the religions of minorities.
Nobody "got away' with anything. All three parties are still being blamed by various factions of people.
So, actually your argument holds zero validity since all three parties were being disrespectful, and all three parties are still being assigned blame from various factions. There was no privilege involved anywhere in this entire ridiculous pretend issue.
RE: Covington High School Issue - bfine32 - 01-25-2019
(01-25-2019, 11:41 PM)Beaker Wrote: No, I really don't have to agree since all three parties were acting disrespectful.You've got to realize when Fred is just trolling and then slowly walk away from the keyboard.
And just as many people see nothing wrong with what the NA was doing either.
Nobody "got away' with anything. All three parties are still being blamed by various factions of people.
So, actually your argument holds zero validity since all three parties were being disrespectful, and all three parties are still being assigned blame from various factions. There was no privilege involved anywhere in this entire ridiculous pretend issue.
RE: Covington High School Issue - BFritz21 - 01-28-2019
(01-25-2019, 08:14 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Easy to explain. They didn't have the full video with what you're describing until after their initial stories ran. They were basing their stories on the information they had available to them. When more information became available they retracted their stories. That's a standard thing in journalism.They deleted their stories, they didn't retract them or admit they were wrong.
(01-25-2019, 10:33 PM)Benton Wrote: A- if they didn't have the full video, there's is 0 case.
B- if they had the full and only reported what they saw, even if they didn't report all of it, there's 0 case.
C- if they had the full, reported with intent to distort facts and are willing to say they distorted facts intentionally then there's a case.
As you and I and many others watch the same 2 hour video and have different t opinions, the likelihood of an option C is negligible. Unless there's some evidence, like someone has an email where they outline C .
They reported that the main child was harassing the elder, which it's clear that he was just standing there with a drum being beaten in his face. Them reporting that the child was harassing the elder is what caused all of the threats and hate directed towards the kid, so there's a case there.
RE: Covington High School Issue - hollodero - 01-28-2019
Just so I get that. Somewhere some boy smirked at some native american drummer. And the whole nation gets rallied up because of such an irrelevant incident?
Why?
RE: Covington High School Issue - jason - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 11:48 AM)hollodero Wrote: Just so I get that. Somewhere some boy smirked at some native american drummer. And the whole nation gets rallied up because of such an irrelevant incident?
Why?
Because 'Merica....
RE: Covington High School Issue - Benton - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 11:30 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: They deleted their stories, they didn't retract them or admit they were wrong.
They reported that the main child was harassing the elder, which it's clear that he was just standing there with a drum being beaten in his face. Them reporting that the child was harassing the elder is what caused all of the threats and hate directed towards the kid, so there's a case there.
Harass isn't limited to physical contact. Intimidation or agressive behavior is more on how the actions are received. In this case, standings there with some of his group saying "you can't move him" can be taken as harassing.
Sorry. There's virtually no case.
RE: Covington High School Issue - Nately120 - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 11:48 AM)hollodero Wrote: Just so I get that. Somewhere some boy smirked at some native american drummer. And the whole nation gets rallied up because of such an irrelevant incident?
Why?
Smug teens (who have it too good these days, by cracky!) were doing some semi-racist native american "hhohh ooohhhhh" chop thing and since the red hats they were wearing said MAGA and not the name of some billion dollar sports team it went from "cheering" to "jeering."
(01-28-2019, 11:30 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: They deleted their stories, they didn't retract them or admit they were wrong.
They reported that the main child was harassing the elder, which it's clear that he was just standing there with a drum being beaten in his face. Them reporting that the child was harassing the elder is what caused all of the threats and hate directed towards the kid, so there's a case there.
I'm not sure if calling the MAGA teen squad children is going to do much to bolster your case, but as you wish. Hims just a baby! Mean ol redskin makum too much anger!
RE: Covington High School Issue - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 11:48 AM)hollodero Wrote: Just so I get that. Somewhere some boy smirked at some native american drummer. And the whole nation gets rallied up because of such an irrelevant incident?
Why?
Because journalism has become a faux outrage machine in this country. People are actively looking for reasons to be offended and whip themselves into a froth.
RE: Covington High School Issue - Nately120 - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 12:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because journalism has become a faux outrage machine in this country. People are actively looking for reasons to be offended and whip themselves into a froth.
What good is living if you can't convince yourself that you and people who think like you are the brave heroes of the story? Tune into your favorite news station today and learn why you are right and people who don't think like you are dangerous.
Damn, that's effective. I'm looking forward to the 2020 election when both candidates admit their opponent isn't dangerous or scary ala McCain when he blew the 2008 election.
RE: Covington High School Issue - hollodero - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 12:41 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Because journalism has become a faux outrage machine in this country. People are actively looking for reasons to be offended and whip themselves into a froth.
Yeah that's certainly somewhat true. But I can't just blame the media for people letting themselves getting all worked up over ridiculous media stories. They are a symptom. They just do what works with the audience.
Why it works is the issue. Why really every complete non-story can be the signal to run for the hills and shoot at the other side. How American's political affiliation is coupled with so much self-righteousness and so much desire for partisan talking points to throw into fruitless quarrels over literally nothing is astonishing. You really do the Russian troll factories' work for them.
This whole debate just is amazingly bizarre.
RE: Covington High School Issue - BFritz21 - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 12:01 PM)Benton Wrote: Harass isn't limited to physical contact. Intimidation or agressive behavior is more on how the actions are received. In this case, standings there with some of his group saying "you can't move him" can be taken as harassing.Walking up to a teen and beating a drum in his face is more harassing than just standing there?!
Sorry. There's virtually no case.
Please tell me that you're joking or at least being sarcastic!
RE: Covington High School Issue - michaelsean - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 01:04 PM)hollodero Wrote: Yeah that's certainly somewhat true. But I can't just blame the media for people letting themselves getting all worked up over ridiculous media stories. They are a symptom. They just do what works with the audience.
Why it works is the issue. Why really every complete non-story can be the signal to run for the hills and shoot at the other side. How American's political affiliation is coupled with so much self-righteousness and so much desire for partisan talking points to throw into fruitless quarrels over literally nothing is astonishing. You really do the Russian troll factories' work for them.
This whole debate just is amazingly bizarre.
Are you issue shaming us?
RE: Covington High School Issue - fredtoast - 01-28-2019
(01-25-2019, 11:41 PM)Beaker Wrote: So, actually your argument holds zero validity since all three parties were being disrespectful, and all three parties are still being assigned blame from various factions. There was no privilege involved anywhere in this entire ridiculous pretend issue.
I disagree. If a preacher had walked up to this group of boys and started praying while the boys jeered and mocked his religious beliefs people would treat it much differently. Many of the people claiming that the boys did nothing wrong would be outraged at them mocking and jeering the popular Christian religion.
RE: Covington High School Issue - bfine32 - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 11:48 AM)hollodero Wrote: Just so I get that. Somewhere some boy smirked at some native american drummer. And the whole nation gets rallied up because of such an irrelevant incident?Because of the hat they were wearing.
Why?
FWIW, the more I read the more I'm beginning to think I was wrong. I originally stated that I felt Phillips' intentions were pure. There's a chance his intention was to harass.
RE: Covington High School Issue - GMDino - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 01:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Because of the hat they were wearing.
FWIW, the more I read the more I'm beginning to think I was wrong. I originally stated that I felt Phillips' intentions were pure. There's a chance his intention was to harass.
Same reason many feel the boys did "nothing wrong" at all.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
RE: Covington High School Issue - bfine32 - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 01:36 PM)GMDino Wrote: Same reason many feel the boys did "nothing wrong" at all.
Live by the sword, die by the sword.
I've freely said the boys mocking were being disrespectful; regardless of their headgear. However, the boy at the center of the controversy and the kids in general did nothing wrong. Especially when compared to the party that is getting no hate from the Left media.
RE: Covington High School Issue - GMDino - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 01:40 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I've freely said the boys mocking were being disrespectful; regardless of their headgear. However, the boy at the center of the controversy and the kids in general did nothing wrong. Especially when compared to the party that is getting no hate from the Left media.
Debatable...and your opinion.
If the "party" you are referring to are the Hebrews they have gotten plenty of press as more videos have come out. Sorry if there isn't enough "hate" from the "left" for your tastes.
RE: Covington High School Issue - bfine32 - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 01:44 PM)GMDino Wrote: Debatable...and your opinion.Every thing is debatable around here. I should have said he did nothing wrong employing the reasonable person standard.
If the "party" you are referring to are the Hebrews they have gotten plenty of press as more videos have come out. Sorry if there isn't enough "hate" from the "left" for your tastes.
No doubt. Stories about the black Hebrews have flooded the media. Isn't it noble to hate, hate?
RE: Covington High School Issue - GMDino - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 01:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Every thing is debatable around here. I should have said he did nothing wrong employing the reasonable person standard.
No doubt. Stories about the black Hebrews have flooded the media. Isn't it noble to hate, hate?
There have been stories...probably even "hate" filled ones. Expand your horizons a bit.
Or should we just ignore them, like nazis, and hope the go away? Sometimes I get confused by how to show proper moral outrage from some other's point of view.
RE: Covington High School Issue - Dill - 01-28-2019
(01-28-2019, 11:48 AM)hollodero Wrote: Just so I get that. Somewhere some boy smirked at some native american drummer. And the whole nation gets rallied up because of such an irrelevant incident?
Why?
You aren't the only one asking that.
Here is a pretty good overview from the Guardian's Jason Wilson.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/23/how-conservative-media-transformed-the-covington-catholic-students-from-pariahs-to-heroes?CMP=share_btn_fb&fbclid=IwAR21OpF7VUkaCf5mbMIOmVPjVFppeNO-Pbg0f6w9jMqT4B_YEcnkn0Ka7dQ
Here is his analysis of the US right wing media strategy mounting successful damage control in the face of a too-passive "liberal" media.
1. Reframe the debate as soon as possible
One thing that rightwing media understands much better than their liberal counterparts is that the ubiquity of recording devices at any current protest tends to shatter the public record into dozens of pieces.
A particular version of events based on early footage can always be called into question, and another version put forward as definitive, as more footage, and alternative edits of footage emerge. Partisans can pick and choose, knowing that a definitive version of what happened may not emerge before the news cycle has moved on.
Just as importantly, additional footage allows the discussion to be reframed. Instead of asking why a group of schoolboys were protesting wearing hats that many in the community view as a symbol of racism, conservatives quickly turned it into a game of who approached whom, and began discussing the teenagers as if they were literal martyrs.
The most influential revisionist account of the confrontation to emerge was written by Reason’s Robbie Soave. In a commentary on the two-hour version of the original video (which readers were unlikely to watch in full), where Soave reframed the discussion to include the actions of a group unrelated either to the students or to Native protesters, and claimed that there had been no wrongdoing on the part of the students. Conservatives picked this ball up and ran with it as far as they could.
2. Pick your narratives
So far, conservative media has been unified and resolute in hammering the narrative that Nathan Philips, a Native American veteran, somehow provoked the boys by coming between them and a small group of Black Hebrew Israelites, to whose insults they had responded with chants.
No amount of additional footage showing their Maga-yelling rowdy behavior and sexist comments before the event – not even showing how aggressive and provocative the teens were and how calm Phillips was – is capable of knocking them off this course.
If you want a lesson in how this kind of persistence works, look at the coverage from Gateway Pundit since Saturday. Very early on, Jim Hoft recognized the symbolic value of the confrontation, doggedly pushed his own, partial interpretation of events, smeared everyone on the other side, and then brought the entirety of conservative media with him. (Earlier, even some conservative outlets had been critical of the boys). His reward was seeing that version of events trumpeted by Tucker Carlson on Monday night, who also launched a broadside at any conservatives who had wavered from exonerating the teens.
That night, and Tuesday, Carlson’s fellow Fox News hosts were singing from the same songsheet. And if Fox News presents a unified message, the president frequently echoes it.
3. Focus on the extremes of the other side
Another tactic conservative media uses is to only consider the most appalling versions of opposing arguments, and to focus their audience’s anger on reliable scapegoats.
To avoid confronting reasonable arguments or new evidence, conservatives emphasize the worst of the other side – like tweets calling for violence or doxxing. Tweets calling for violence or doxxing against high school students are obviously and clearly unacceptable, but nor are they typical of the criticisms made of the boys, their school and their conduct. They also focus the audience on liberal journalists and celebrities – mostly women – who their audience feel comfortable in deriding and dismissing.
As of Wednesday, as a result of these well-worn tactics, liberal media has almost completely backed away from their initial, justified take on the story.