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+---- Thread: War with Iran? (/Thread-War-with-Iran)
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-19-2019
(06-19-2019, 04:32 PM)bfine32 Wrote: My uncle was a firefighter, so I know how to put out fires...
Close, but try this instead.
"You don't know what terms like water, hose, and truck mean because you have never been a firefighter"
No one who hs never been in the military can be honorable, right? Or at least as honorable as your hero Jessup. His actions don't matter at all, do they. All that matters is that he wore the same uniform as you. That is what they told you to believe, right?
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-19-2019
(06-19-2019, 05:38 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Close, but try this instead.
"You don't know what terms like water, hose, and truck mean because you have never been a firefighter"
No one who hs never been in the military can be honorable, right? Or at least as honorable as your hero Jessup. His actions don't matter at all, do they. All that matters is that he wore the same uniform as you. That is what they told you to believe, right?
What term did I say you did not understand?
There comes a point when you go from amusing to bothersome. We've reached that point
RE: War with Iran? - Mike M (the other one) - 06-19-2019
(06-18-2019, 01:28 AM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Just explaining why I was late to the party. Show me where I mentioned your smoking and work habits specifically by name in this thread? I didn't. You assumed I was talking about you. Guilty conscience? I don't know. You tell me.
It's 'Merica, dude. If you don't like me exercising my freedom to write what I want then you can join Rush Limbaugh overseas in Costa Rica. Oh, wait. He didn't leave.
You quoted him, so that makes it a direct response.
Exercise your freedom all you want, but no direct attacks.
RE: War with Iran? - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 06-19-2019
(06-19-2019, 08:09 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: You quoted him, so that makes it a direct response.
Exercise your freedom all you want, but no direct attacks.
(06-17-2019, 04:15 PM)bfine32 Wrote: These things work better if you read the actually post instead of being a little *****.
Cool.
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-19-2019, 07:13 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What term did I say you did not understand?
Your right. you never said that. I am sorry.
Let me just go back to my original point. There is nothing I am "ignorant of" when it comes to understanding how the military follows such words as honor, code, discipline, oath, and obedience.
But I am ignorant as to why you view Col Jessup as a paradigm of honor. Perhaps you could explain that to me.
**waits for another comment about Bfine's uncle the firefighter**
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 12:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Your right. you never said that. I am sorry.
Let me just go back to my original point. There is nothing I am "ignorant of" when it comes to understanding how the military follows such words as honor, code, discipline, oath, and obedience.
But I am ignorant as to why you view Col Jessup as a paradigm of honor. Perhaps you could explain that to me.
**waits for another comment about Bfine's uncle the firefighter**
Because the message speaks to he bliss and self-righteousness of ignorant innocence.
Plus it's an iconic speech made by an iconic actor.
RE: War with Iran? - GMDino - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 12:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Because the message speaks to he bliss and self-righteousness of ignorant innocence.
Plus it's an iconic speech made by an iconic actor.
Amen. That character was arrogant to the what was right. Blinded by his oath and what he believed was his "duty". To the point that it led to a man's death.
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 12:37 PM)GMDino Wrote: Amen. That character was arrogant to the what was right. Blinded by his oath and what he believed was his "duty". To the point that it led to a man's death.
Remember the part about the quote of certain words others use as punchlines? Thanks for the assist.
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 12:28 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Because the message speaks to he bliss and self-righteousness of ignorant innocence.
But my point is that there is no "ignorant bliss". I understand how the military works and what it does. I am not ignorant of anything. I have talked to many people about their military service and heard many vets speak. There are no big secrets.
This reminds me of the kneeling anthem discussions when some vets were so arrogant that they claimed they owned the flag and spoke for all vets. But the truth was there were many veterans who had served the country also who disagreed with these arrogant delusional vets. That is exactly what is happening here. You are trying to claim that there is some huge secret that only vets know that makes all of your opinions correct, but the fact is there are other vets disagreeing with you. You also try to act like all the parents of all the military casualties agree with you when they do not.
Obviously you have your right to your own opinion, but you have no right to claim that there is some secret knowledge that makes all vets agree with you. That just is not true.
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 12:41 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Remember the part about the quote of certain words others use as punchlines? Thanks for the assist.
What does this even mean? Are you really saying that it is impossible for a soldier to do something that is dishonorable?
Remember the part about how you only believe what your superiors tell you to believe? Thanks for the assist.
RE: War with Iran? - Dill - 06-20-2019
(06-19-2019, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If the US attacks Iran it will bust open a hornets nest all across the Middle east. That is the biggets problem I see.
I would not expect an immediate, coordinated conflagration.
But a "hornets nest" for sure.
1. Hezbollah and Hamas could fire rockets into Israel, forcing the Israelis to respond, perhaps even invade again.
2. Yemen: same old same old.
3. Iraq already has a government and military sympathetic to Iran. They could have difficulty controlling attacks on US assests in that country. The attempt to do so could ignite an insurgency.
4. Similar potential for disruption in Afghanistan.
5. B-zona mentioned the use of missiles against fixed targets like bases in Iran. But let's not forget that Qatar has an air base with 11, 000 airmen barely 100 miles across the gulf. I don't trust Patriots to defend against a swarm attack. In Kuwait there are at least three US bases, which could contain another 20,000 US military members, plus a Naval base in Bahrain--a country with an oppressed Shia majority.
6. If Iran strikes Israel, as Saddam did in the Gulf War, that would also have destabilizing effect, creating tension between Arab governments who support a US aid supported status quo of hands off Israel, and populations who see that as national humiliation. The perception that the US is suddenly over extended, that US "friendly" regimes are vulnerable, could lead to another Arab Spring in several countries, including Saudi Arabia.
7. Trump/Bolton may not be listening, but there are certainly people telling them a war with Iran would involve way more than a clash of conventional forces in that one country. And the risk to assets like the bases in Qatar, Bahrain, and Kuwait very great. That recognition creates an incentive to go to the next level and use nukes. "Why do we have them if we are not going to use them?"
8. Finally at the global level, war would be a wonderful opening for Russia and China to further degrade US alliances world wide. Most nations of the world will see the US as an aggressor in this case, regardless of what their leaders say. After making the Iran Deal, the US broke it, then ordered allies to break it as well, then sent more and more military assets into the Gulf.
9. Also, if the US sees "mission accomplished" quickly, in a week or so, and begins a costly occupation, then we can expect steadily increasing problems regarding 1, 3, 6 an 8 above.
I've noticed many Americans seem to view conflict with Iran as merely bi-lateral, with success to be gauged by a match of our conventional forces against their conventional forces, with little sense of all these other diplomatic/international implications and consequences. They may remind us how quickly Bush routed the Taliban in 2001 and destroyed Saddam's military in 2003. So why would we worry about a larger country with way more misslies than Iraq and way more mountains than Afghanistan?
On the good side, the Iranians so far seem more cautious and far-sighted than Trump/Bolton/Pompeo. They will require more provocation than they have already.
RE: War with Iran? - jj22 - 06-20-2019
It is interesting that now Iran is shooting down American vessels and aircraft.
They never did this under Obama.
Will Trump supporters criticize Trump for pulling out of the deal that looks to now be sending us to war?
Will they credit Obama who Iran never tested like this?
Or will they somehow blame Hillary.
We'll see.
RE: War with Iran? - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 03:17 PM)jj22 Wrote: It is interesting that now Iran is shooting down American vessels and aircraft.
They never did this under Obama.
Will Trump supporters criticize Trump for pulling out of the deal that looks to now be sending us to war?
Will they credit Obama who Iran never tested like this?
Or will they somehow blame Hillary.
We'll see.
Iran could avoid both sanctions and potential war by entirely giving up their nuclear weapons program for good. Mind you they told us years ago they don't want nuclear weapons so let's kindly take them at their word. While I'm not a fan of a war with Iran to paint them as a cowering victim in this scenario is horribly disingenuous. Iran is a demonstrable state sponsor of terrorism, a radical theocracy that engages in horrible treatment of its citizens and has expressed a desire to utterly destroy another nation in the Middle East. Is this the sort of country you want possessing nuclear weapons? If so, just have the courage to say so. If not then do the same. There is an honest debate to be had about whether the former deal with Iran was the best way to achieve nuclear disarmament. Regardless, that is no longer a possibility, so the choice remains with Iran. Persist in pursuing nuclear weapons and risk war or abandon attempts to make them and completely avoid any risk of war.
RE: War with Iran? - fredtoast - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 03:47 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Regardless, that is no longer a possibility, so the choice remains with Iran. Persist in pursuing nuclear weapons and risk war or abandon attempts to make them and completely avoid any risk of war.
So you believe that giving up weapons makes you safe and removes all risk of conflict? That sounds kind of strange coming from you.
The choice is not just with Iran. The US has the option to re-engage in diplomacy.
RE: War with Iran? - GMDino - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 03:17 PM)jj22 Wrote: It is interesting that now Iran is shooting down American vessels and aircraft.
They never did this under Obama.
Will Trump supporters criticize Trump for pulling out of the deal that looks to now be sending us to war?
Will they credit Obama who Iran never tested like this?
Or will they somehow blame Hillary.
We'll see.
Don't worry...DJT will release a beautiful new agreement. Some people have said it's the best ever. And he'll put this all behind us.
Or the Iranian leaders will write a wonderful letter to Trump saying how much they love him and then we won't have to worry about it anymore.
RE: War with Iran? - Bengalzona - 06-20-2019
So, are we going to war over a drone?
I mean, it's not like we lost a person, right? Heck, I would probably be willing to go to war over a combat dog getting slain (dogs are awesome).
But a drone? Really?!?!?
Really?
RE: War with Iran? - GMDino - 06-20-2019
Even better...he thinks they have people like him running things in Iran.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/06/20/donald-trump-irans-shooting-down-u-s-drone-big-mistake/1511359001/
Quote:President Donald Trump Thursday played down the shooting down of a U.S. surveillance drone by Iran, saying it appeared to have been a "big mistake" by someone "loose and stupid."
“I find it hard to believe it was intentional," Trump told reporters during an Oval Office meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
"I think it could have been somebody who was loose and stupid that did it."
Trump also said that Americans would know "soon" how he plans to respond.
Iran said it shot down the drone because it entered the nation's airspace, but Trump said it was over international waters.
The incident early Thursday heightened already strained tensions between the U.S. and Iran and prompted top Pentagon officials to formulate military response options.
The two countries have escalated their rhetoric since two oil tankers were attacked in the Gulf of Oman last week. The United States blames Iran for the attacks, but Tehran denies responsibility. But in an interview with TIME magazine, Trump described the two attacks as “very minor.”
Iran said it shot down the drone over the southern coast of its Hormozgan Province and said the incident sent a “clear message” that the Persian Gulf nation was ready to defend itself from what it views as Western aggression.
The White House invited congressional leaders to a briefing at 3 p.m. EDT that the president is expected to attend. Invited are House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy.
The chairmen and ranking members of the Senate and House Intelligence and Armed Services committees also were invited, according the White House schedule.
The Pentagon, however, said the incident played out in international waters over the Strait of Hormuz.
RE: War with Iran? - GMDino - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 04:29 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: So, are we going to war over a drone?
I mean, it's not like we lost a person, right? Heck, I would probably be willing to go to war over a combat dog getting slain (dogs are awesome).
But a drone? Really?!?!?
Really?
A drone over what Iran says is their territory.
But DJT said Americans will know "soon" so basically nothing will happen. It's always opposite day in his head.
RE: War with Iran? - Bengalzona - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 04:32 PM)GMDino Wrote: A drone over what Iran says is their territory.
But DJT said Americans will know "soon" so basically nothing will happen. It's always opposite day in his head.
So nothing will happen?
Boltin isn't sitting in some White House toilet stall wanking away over this incident?
RE: War with Iran? - bfine32 - 06-20-2019
(06-20-2019, 04:29 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: So, are we going to war over a drone?
I mean, it's not like we lost a person, right? Heck, I would probably be willing to go to war over a combat dog getting slain (dogs are awesome).
But a drone? Really?!?!?
Really?
Well it is the US's responsibility to safeguard the Straight of Hormuz. Recently 2 ships were attacked along that straight. If Iran keeps shooting down our vehicles trying to assist in the surveil of the straight what should we do?