(09-23-2020, 02:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, it's not. But, he still didn't commit an impeachable offense.

(09-23-2020, 12:44 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I disagree. The impeachment was about getting rid of Trump and not because he did "bad things" but because he was Trump and Democrats hate that he was elected.

(09-23-2020, 02:22 PM)PhilHos Wrote: No, it's not. But, he still didn't commit an impeachable offense.

(09-23-2020, 02:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That's a bullshit reason. No, he was no career politician, but that doesn't mean he wasn't fit for the job. There was no reason to talk IMPEACHMENT on the day he was elected president. 

(09-23-2020, 02:27 PM)hollodero Wrote: That seems like a matter of perspective, including with constitutional scholars. It it's impeachable is a political question, not one that can objectively be answered so easily.

(09-23-2020, 02:27 PM)hollodero Wrote: You did give a "he was impeached because the dems just hate the guy" explanation - which is probably quite true, for sure, but does in no way refute that he did something quite wrong regarding this whole Ukraine situation.

(09-23-2020, 02:21 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That's a bullshit reason. No, he was no career politician, but that doesn't mean he wasn't fit for the job. There was no reason to talk IMPEACHMENT on the day he was elected president. 

(09-23-2020, 02:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: Did you feel the same when Republicans vowed to make Obama fail and be a 1 term President on the first day of his term? They didn't even need to have an impeachable offense legit or not.

…..

Or does that tug on the hypocritical values so popular in today's America? So rewarding for Republicans in congress....

No need to answer. It was a rhetorical question.

(09-23-2020, 02:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: Did you feel the same when Republicans vowed to make Obama fail and be a 1 term President on the first day of his term? They didn't even need to have an impeachable offense legit or not.

…..

Or does that tug on the hypocritical values so popular in today's America? So rewarding for Republicans in congress....

No need to answer. It was a rhetorical question.

Quote:The Facts
 McConnell made his remarks in an interview that appeared in the National Journal on Oct. 23, 2010 — nearly two years after Obama was elected president. The interview took place on the eve the of the midterm elections.  The interview is relatively short, so we will print it in its entirety, with key portions highlighted.   


NJ: You’ve been studying the history of presidents who lost part or all of Congress in their first term. Why?

McConnell: In the last 100 years, three presidents suffered big defeats in Congress in their first term and then won reelection: Harry Truman, Dwight Eisenhower, and the most recent example, Bill Clinton. I read a lot of history anyway, but I am trying to apply those lessons to current situations in hopes of not making the same mistakes.

NJ: What have you learned?

McConnell: After 1994, the public had the impression we Republicans overpromised and underdelivered. We suffered from some degree of hubris and acted as if the president was irrelevant and we would roll over him. By the summer of 1995, he was already on the way to being reelected, and we were hanging on for our lives.

NJ: What does this mean now?

McConnell: We need to be honest with the public. This election is about them, not us. And we need to treat this election as the first step in retaking the government. We need to say to everyone on Election Day, “Those of you who helped make this a good day, you need to go out and help us finish the job.”
NJ: What’s the job?

McConnell: The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.
NJ: Does that mean endless, or at least frequent, confrontation with the president?

McConnell: If President Obama does a Clintonian backflip, if he’s willing to meet us halfway on some of the biggest issues, it’s not inappropriate for us to do business with him.
NJ: What are the big issues?

McConnell: It is possible the president’s advisers will tell him he has to do something to get right with the public on his levels of spending and [on] lowering the national debt. If he were to heed that advice, he would, I imagine, find more support among our conference than he would among some in the Senate in his own party. I don’t want the president to fail; I want him to change. So, we’ll see. The next move is going to be up to him.
NJ: What will you seek from the president on the tax issue?

McConnell: At the very least, I believe we should extend all of the Bush tax cuts. And I prefer to describe this as keeping current tax policy. It’s been on the books for 10 years. Now, how long that [extension] is, is something we can discuss. It was clear his position was not [favored] among all Senate Democrats. They had their own divisions. I don’t think those divisions are going to be any less in November and December.

When seen in full context, McConnell’s quote is not really as shocking as the snippet that is frequently repeated by Democrats.

(09-23-2020, 02:28 PM)GMDino Wrote: He was impeached.

(09-23-2020, 02:40 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote:  Don't you honestly believe the Dems felt the exact same way on Trumps 1st day ? 


 May not have said it in front of the cameras but dam sure were plotting the exact same thing in the background.

 

(09-23-2020, 02:29 PM)Benton Wrote: You're not incorrect.

It's also not incorrect that while the motivations of some of them were wrong (doing it because they didn't like him), you can't exclude that some did it for the right reason (that Trump had done things worthy of removal from office). So why keep the baby AND the bath water?

(09-23-2020, 02:42 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The interview occurred after Obama had been in office for 2 years

You consider that akin to leveling charges of impeachment?

No need to answer it was a rhetorical question

(09-23-2020, 02:32 PM)Benton Wrote: He was acquitted along party line after being impeached. That's a far cry from being innocent.

(09-23-2020, 02:35 PM)jj22 Wrote: Did you feel the same when Republicans vowed to make Obama fail and be a 1 term President on the first day of his term? They didn't even need to have an impeachable offense legit or not.

(09-23-2020, 02:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: If they did, Lord knows they couldn't say it so openly as McConnell and the Republicans did  when Obama was elected with this American electorate. 

(09-23-2020, 02:39 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I don't think so. Even the Republicans said it. Fox News. Lindsay Graham. Jeb Bush. Mitt Romney. Ted Cruz. You can google videos of all of them talking about how Trump for who he is. A con artist. A bigot. A jackass. A pathological Liar. They all saw it.

It's just that once he was nominated and then elected, Republicans could no longer admit it, because their campaigns and money were now invested with Trump's. Fox News could no longer criticize him because their entire fan base was made up of Trump voters etc.

You can claim that even with all his lying, conning, bigotry, brashness, rudeness, impulsiveness, thin skin and ill temperament, there was no way for us to KNOW he'd be a bad president back in 2016.

But we know now.

(09-23-2020, 02:50 PM)masonbengals fan Wrote: Why couldn't they say it ?

(09-23-2020, 02:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I know I'm conservatively-biased but I'm no Trump supporter. I don't hate the guy and I'll probably vote for him over Biden, but I recognize much of his negatives. 

(09-23-2020, 02:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: That said, I tried to look at from as unbiased a position as I could and I just didn't see enough to say Trump deserved impeachment. Much of what was listed as reasons for impeachment, the evidence for was murky and not solid enough. 

No it doesn't refute anything regarding the Ukraine situation, but them calling for his impeachment before he's even inaugurated kinda hurts their arguments, does it not?

(01-27-1975, 05:57 PM)PhilHos Wrote: As to the rest of your post, no offense, hollodero, I just don't feel like rehashing the whole impeachment thing right now. My memory is too fuzzy on the details and I don't have the time to research all the finer points (I'm posting while at work).

(09-23-2020, 02:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: We're talking about people calling for his removal BEFORE HE WAS EVEN SWORN IN. Yeah, the guy was a jerk and a conman. He still legally was elected president. It sucks, sure, but you can't just call for him to be removed simply because you don't like the guy or because you think he's a bad guy.

(09-23-2020, 02:51 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So as long as someone's a liar, it's ok to demand his removal from office? **** the will of the voters?

We're talking about people calling for his removal BEFORE HE WAS EVEN SWORN IN. Yeah, the guy was a jerk and a conman. He still legally was elected president. It sucks, sure, but you can't just call for him to be removed simply because you don't like the guy or because you think he's a bad guy.