Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +--- Thread: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine (/Thread-Russia-begins-moving-troops-into-eastern-Ukraine) |
RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - NATI BENGALS - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 09:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: An interesting, albeit predictable, response. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not a fan of Trump praising Putin's "genius move". But if you think criticizing a POTUS about the actions of our enemies is new then you're amazingly naïve or have never studied history. It's absolutely fair to assign some blame for this to Biden, he is the President after all. I suppose it is easier to attack the low hanging fruit, but do try and turn your gimlet gaze on the party that's actually in power. Or don't and yell at clouds. You do you. I asked once. And never expected an answer. I'll ask again for shits and giggles. Other than releasing the play by play of everything russia was going to do before they did it and invaded what else could we have done to prevent this other than caving to the demands of an authoritarian madman? RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - NATI BENGALS - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 09:54 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Lets see.... no seriously? RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - GMDino - 02-24-2022 RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - GMDino - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 09:59 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: no seriously? If you don't know those things by now you're the mark. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 07:01 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: See below in response to the first part. While we reserve the right to define "in line"? That's a nakedly authoritarian approach to international relations, isn't it? That sounds like what Putin wants. I don't think its a good thing for the US to be "feared," but why would other countries think we don't stand up for ourselves or other countries? How many wars have we prosecuted since 1991? How many international sanction policies have we led? RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - GMDino - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 09:11 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Yes. I will continue to play my role of being aware and acknowledging that a narcissist reality tv show host traitor conman won an election with the help of a russian disinformation campaign. Proceeded to lose the following election but not before trying to rig said election by blackmailing Ukraine, and then attempting to steal said election by lying directly to every American and used fake news outlets such as fox news to whip up his base enough to have the ugliest day in my life for my country as our capital came under assault from a bunch of his followers. You'd think so. But there is always an excuse, another "angle", an accusation of "both sides do it". RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 06:28 PM)Au165 Wrote: I love how people think this actually has anything to do with any President of the United States. We are so self absorbed with politics we literally think everything is somehow related to us, it really isn't. This is a much more complex issue than who is in the White House and intelligence around this very idea has circulated for years. Putin has fantasized about re establishment of the Soviet Union in a bid to reclaim Russia's super power role in world politics. This frames the issue well. International relations are exceedingly complex, with many causes producing a wide range of mostly unpredictable effects. Regarding the second bolded--this MAY have something to do with us in the Ukrainians were more vocal and hopeful of NATO integration when Biden became president. But that is too weak to be in itself a causal factor. Could influence a decision to which P was already tending. But Putin has been working out how to regain control over the Ukraine at least since 2007. I think his planning has been rather fluid and adjusted to changing circumstances, including the degree of his hold on power in Russia, which requires control of the Duma. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - GMDino - 02-24-2022 https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/24/investing/ruble-russian-stocks-crash/index.html Quote:London/Paris (CNN Business)Russian stocks crashed and the ruble hit a record low against the dollar on Thursday after Russian troops launched an attack on Ukraine. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - NATI BENGALS - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 10:05 PM)GMDino Wrote: If you don't know those thongs by now you're the mark. Only thongs I know are the unwashed variety that come from the Ukrainian pornstars I follow on onlyfans. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - GMDino - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 10:29 PM)NATI BENGALS Wrote: Only thongs I know are the unwashed variety that come from the Ukrainian pornstars I follow on onlyfans. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - NATI BENGALS - 02-24-2022 Been drinking.. Sorry. It's not everyday the authoritarian leader of russia who is an ex kgb agent and has murdered people with radioactive material invades a European ally, takes over Chernobyl, and threatens anyone who resists with nukes. sig bet says the covid vaccine was so you can meet the aliens who fly in and stop nuclear holocaust RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 06:36 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: It's all speculative, but there are a few logical guesses as to why Putin waited. A lot of good points here. As for the bolded, Hannity was making that argument on the radio today--other autocrats supposedly feared Trump's "unpredictability." Like that actually extended rather than reduced US state power. I find that doubtful, though. He wasn't all THAT unpredictable. He had a fondness for dictators and anti-democrats. There is NO REASON to believe Trump would have been anything but apologetic and passive had Putin invaded Ukraine while T was president, hamstringing NATO and UE efforts to resist. How easily manipulated he must have appeared to Putin/Lavrov et al. even BEFORE he let Lavrov and an FSB agent into the oval office unchaperoned, and allowed Russian press to cover the event. Putin got him to diss his own intel services on the international stage. A second Trump president, without the guard rails this time, would have helped both Russia and China, especially their efforts to construct a counter-diplomacy to combat the US unmatchable (pre-Trump) diplomatic power. For sometime on the Right now we have gotten this confused messaging, like we're supposed to ignore invasions on other continents because "globalism" is bad, but our leaders are "weak" if they don't respond with some full on military response, rather than respond smart. Didn't someone back on the Afghanistan thread claim that the Taliban feared Trump--the guy who kowtowed to all their demands, including the release of 5,000 prisoners and exclusion of the US backed gov.? LOL RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Dill - 02-24-2022 (02-24-2022, 10:25 PM)GMDino Wrote: https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/24/investing/ruble-russian-stocks-crash/index.html The question now is whether and how fast this kind of thing will drive up internal opposition to the war within Russia. Playing and re-playing Tucker Carlson on Russian TV won't sway many minds on the rightness of the Russian cause if their financial system seriously constricts. Russia has been preparing for sanctions for years. Still, I'm thinking the invasion was a miscalculation. Russia's little economy, the biggest to be hit with international sanctions, will struggle over the long hall. Perhaps P hopes he can quickly instal a puppet regime, get out, and the sanctions will drop? Maintaining them over the long run will be VERY hard on Russia, but unfortunately also on many of our allies with trade with Russia. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Bengalzona - 02-25-2022 (02-24-2022, 09:46 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: An interesting, albeit predictable, response. Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not a fan of Trump praising Putin's "genius move". But if you think criticizing a POTUS about the actions of our enemies is new then you're amazingly naïve or have never studied history. It's absolutely fair to assign some blame for this to Biden, he is the President after all. I suppose it is easier to attack the low hanging fruit, but do try and turn your gimlet gaze on the party that's actually in power. Or don't and yell at clouds. You do you. Yeah. Trump is not the POTUS anymore, so he is pretty much a non-issue in all of this. If he wants to sit around the TV at Mar a Lago and cheer on the invasion like it is a football game, why should I care? Doesn't impact me. As far as Biden, I'm not a fan. He has been sort of mediocre as a POTUS, IMO. But while he has not been especially innovative with this Ukraine situation, I'm not exactly sure what his critics expected him to do here. I'd like to hear what people feel he could have done to avoid this, because I'm not seeing it. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Nately120 - 02-25-2022 (02-25-2022, 12:12 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: Yeah. Trump is not the POTUS anymore, so he is pretty much a non-issue in all of this. If he wants to sit around the TV at Mar a Lago and cheer on the invasion like it is a football game, why should I care? Doesn't impact me. I agree overall, but Trump is still the standard bearer for the GOP at the moment. I wish he didn't matter, but everything he says and does matters until further notice. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Interceptor - 02-25-2022 Usually an invasion is preceded by a blackout/jamming of all communications. It looks like all the radio stations are up and still playing their programs. Kyiv, Ukraine (all stations) RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - masonbengals fan - 02-25-2022 https://www.realclearenergy.org/articles/2022/02/24/standing_up_to_putin_means_ditching_net-zero_818493.html Take a moment & read this short article. Well worth it. It seems like common sense to me but that seems to be in short supply these days. Ultimately all I hope for is a quick, peaceful resolution to this situation, and send wishes of safety to those in harm’s way RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Belsnickel - 02-25-2022 (02-25-2022, 12:12 AM)Bengalzona Wrote: As far as Biden, I'm not a fan. He has been sort of mediocre as a POTUS, IMO. But while he has not been especially innovative with this Ukraine situation, I'm not exactly sure what his critics expected him to do here. I'd like to hear what people feel he could have done to avoid this, because I'm not seeing it. Of course he hasn't been innovative. He's an old hand at all of this and his moves are predictable. As for what we could've done to avoid this? Support a referendum for the separatist regions and agree to not add Ukraine to NATO. We tend to overlook our role in creating this problem. Don't get me wrong, Putin is an imperialistic oligarch and is in the wrong, here, but the US and Europe has gone back on their agreements and it instigated this. In 1990, both the US and NATO agreed to no eastward expansion beyond Germany with the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact. That was ignored and as the USSR fell, their former nations were added to the NATO roster. This is of concern to Russia as the distance between NATO, an organization really created to be antagonistic to them, creeps closer to their main seat of power. Ukraine was the last frontier in that regard as it provides a strategic pathway to major Russian cities from the west. Now, this is the explanation coming from many folks that know this issue fairly well. There is probably a lot more to it, as international relations is very complex and multi-faceted. But this explanation really makes sense to me. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-25-2022 (02-25-2022, 01:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Of course he hasn't been innovative. He's an old hand at all of this and his moves are predictable. As for what we could've done to avoid this? Support a referendum for the separatist regions and agree to not add Ukraine to NATO. We tend to overlook our role in creating this problem. Don't get me wrong, Putin is an imperialistic oligarch and is in the wrong, here, but the US and Europe has gone back on their agreements and it instigated this. In 1990, both the US and NATO agreed to no eastward expansion beyond Germany with the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact. That was ignored and as the USSR fell, their former nations were added to the NATO roster. This is of concern to Russia as the distance between NATO, an organization really created to be antagonistic to them, creeps closer to their main seat of power. Ukraine was the last frontier in that regard as it provides a strategic pathway to major Russian cities from the west. 100% correct. This is exactly why I've said for decades that dissolving NATO and restarting the alliance under a different name and mission would have alleviated a lot of these issues. It certainly wouldn't have made Putin a better person, he's an irredeemable piece of shit, but every nation added to NATO was a thumb in the eye or a knee in the groin of Russia. As I stated earlier in this thread, Russia is a proud nation that tends to feel disrespected, when it desperately wants to be respected. They'll take respect any way they can get it, and if being a bully who is feared is the only way they feel they can get it, then that's what you'll get. None of that excuses this war of aggression/expansion, but this all could likely have been prevented with very minimal fuss on our end a long time ago. RE: Russia begins moving troops into eastern Ukraine - StrictlyBiz - 02-25-2022 (02-25-2022, 01:00 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Of course he hasn't been innovative. He's an old hand at all of this and his moves are predictable. As for what we could've done to avoid this? Support a referendum for the separatist regions and agree to not add Ukraine to NATO. We tend to overlook our role in creating this problem. Don't get me wrong, Putin is an imperialistic oligarch and is in the wrong, here, but the US and Europe has gone back on their agreements and it instigated this. In 1990, both the US and NATO agreed to no eastward expansion beyond Germany with the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact. That was ignored and as the USSR fell, their former nations were added to the NATO roster. This is of concern to Russia as the distance between NATO, an organization really created to be antagonistic to them, creeps closer to their main seat of power. Ukraine was the last frontier in that regard as it provides a strategic pathway to major Russian cities from the west. Good post |