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+---- Thread: Freedom of press. (/Thread-Freedom-of-press)
Freedom of press. - hollodero - 02-21-2017
Room, elephant, you can't hide.
I won't talk too much, though. You do the talking, I do the listening. I do need to start the talk of course, so let's talk Sean Hannity.
Who said the left wing media has declared war on Donald Trump and hence, has declared war on the American people.
I am all for free speech, free press, you can bash them, they can bash you, all that. But of course there are some logical boundaries to that (e.g. I can't go on TV and tell people that I demand them to kill all Inuits, I can't falsely accuse someone of rape and murder and such). What do you, what does especially the right say to that particular Sean Hannity piece? OK, cool or maybe just a bit much?
(Said words are spoken at about 2:35 in this clip)
Additionally, free press, fake news... discuss.
RE: Freedom of press. - michaelsean - 02-21-2017
I have no problem with him saying it. It's his opinion of the relationship between the media and Trump.
RE: Freedom of press. - xxlt - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 04:26 AM)hollodero Wrote: Room, elephant, you can't hide.
I won't talk too much, though. You do the talking, I do the listening. I do need to start the talk of course, so let's talk Sean Hannity.
Who said the left wing media has declared war on Donald Trump and hence, has declared war on the American people.
I am all for free speech, free press, you can bash them, they can bash you, all that. But of course there are some logical boundaries to that (e.g. I can't go on TV and tell people that I demand them to kill all Inuits, I can't falsely accuse someone of rape and murder and such). What do you, what does especially the right say to that particular Sean Hannity piece? OK, cool or maybe just a bit much?
(Said words are spoken at about 2:35 in this clip)
Additionally, free press, fake news... discuss.
I think even some "hey, sure he's batshit crazy, but he's not a liberal" voters would agree on this point. People who have more credibility than Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and HANNITY! include: Captain Crunch, Count Chocula, The Lucky Charms Leprechaun, and Gary Busey. I would almost even add DT himself to this list but I think it is too close to call.
RE: Freedom of press. - hollodero - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 08:41 AM)michaelsean Wrote: I have no problem with him saying it. It's his opinion of the relationship between the media and Trump.
Alright. Only thing is, he didn't just say "they declared war on Trump". He said "they declared war on the american people".
RE: Freedom of press. - michaelsean - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 09:00 AM)hollodero Wrote: Alright. Only thing is, he didn't just say "they declared war on Trump". He said "they declared war on the american people".
Again, right or wrong, it's his opinion on what the media is doing. Are you thinking he shouldn't be allowed to say it? Or are you just saying he's wrong?
RE: Freedom of press. - GMDino - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 09:48 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Again, right or wrong, it's his opinion on what the media is doing. Are you thinking he shouldn't be allowed to say it? Or are you just saying he's wrong?
Personally I think the President should be very careful with his words when speaking publicly on any subject.
I also think the current POTUS does not have the desire or ability to think before he speaks. He "knows" he is very "smart" and is "right" so he figures whatever he says is correct and true and everyone should just believe it.
That is also part of the reason he hates the press and thinks they are all liars and crooked: They disagree with him and can prove when he is wrong.
RE: Freedom of press. - hollodero - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 09:48 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Again, right or wrong, it's his opinion on what the media is doing. Are you thinking he shouldn't be allowed to say it? Or are you just saying he's wrong?
Well, to the latter, yeah I think it's wrong, but I think that about many things. That's not my point.
To the first question... I'm not 100% sure, that's tricky to answer. I lean towards he should be allowed; although I see it as borderline agitation. All these "enemy of the people" claims are. - My opinion probably would be, say it, but there should be a backlash in the form of harsh critizism.
RE: Freedom of press. - michaelsean - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 10:02 AM)GMDino Wrote: Personally I think the President should be very careful with his words when speaking publicly on any subject.
I also think the current POTUS does not have the desire or ability to think before he speaks. He "knows" he is very "smart" and is "right" so he figures whatever he says is correct and true and everyone should just believe it.
That is also part of the reason he hates the press and thinks they are all liars and crooked: They disagree with him and can prove when he is wrong.
He's talking about Hannity saying it. (At least I think so.)
RE: Freedom of press. - michaelsean - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 10:14 AM)hollodero Wrote: Well, to the latter, yeah I think it's wrong, but I think that about many things. That's not my point.
To the first question... I'm not 100% sure, that's tricky to answer. I lean towards he should be allowed; although I see it as borderline agitation. All these "enemy of the people" claims are. - My opinion probably would be, say it, but there should be a backlash in the form of harsh critizism.
There's nothing wrong with agitation. Agitation has led to a lot of changes. There may or may not be harsh criticism. That's up to the people. Like for instance, if roles were reversed and someone said the media was at war with Obama, I really wouldn't give it two seconds notice. I mean you really don't see any Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberman threads here, because nobody on the right cares.
RE: Freedom of press. - hollodero - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 10:29 AM)michaelsean Wrote: There's nothing wrong with agitation. Agitation has led to a lot of changes. There may or may not be harsh criticism. That's up to the people. Like for instance, if roles were reversed and someone said the media was at war with Obama, I really wouldn't give it two seconds notice. I mean you really don't see any Rachel Maddow or Keith Olberman threads here, because nobody on the right cares.
The reversed roles would rather be a political commentator saying "FOX news is at war with the american people". As I said, I wouldn't give too much notice to someone saying "at war with Trump/obama" either, that's not the point. It's the "at war with the American people" part that makes me wonder. That "public enemy" implication.
Because that's what Hannity (and Trump, but right I talked about Hannity) did for me, calling the so-called left-wing media a public enemy.
RE: Freedom of press. - GMDino - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 10:22 AM)michaelsean Wrote: He's talking about Hannity saying it. (At least I think so.)
Ah! Sorry. Didn't read back all the way.
Hannity can say what he wants. His is an opinion show...not news. (According the FOX.) While still feel he should think before he speaks that isn't what his job requires. He is just there to rabble rouse.
He can also be told he is wrong and shut the hell up.
RE: Freedom of press. - michaelsean - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 10:55 AM)hollodero Wrote: The reversed roles would rather be a political commentator saying "FOX news is at war with the american people". As I said, I wouldn't give too much notice to someone saying "at war with Trump/obama" either, that's not the point. It's the "at war with the American people" part that makes me wonder. That "public enemy" implication.
Because that's what Hannity (and Trump, but right I talked about Hannity) did for me, calling the so-called left-wing media a public enemy.
Yeah. Much like Hannity himself and Rush etc have been called. We call people anti-American. We call people traitors. We label everything as treasonous. We call them commies and fascists. You can say what you want with a few specific limitations.
RE: Freedom of press. - hollodero - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 11:20 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah. Much like Hannity himself and Rush etc have been called. We call people anti-American. We call people traitors. We label everything as treasonous. We call them commies and fascists. You can say what you want with a few specific limitations.
You can, sure, as you can here. I just wondered where's the backlash. Turns out, there really is none. So ok, you just have extraordinarily harsh ways.
I'm done talking about Hannity now. :)
RE: Freedom of press. - michaelsean - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 11:55 AM)hollodero Wrote: You can, sure, as you can here. I just wondered where's the backlash. Turns out, there really is none. So ok, you just have extraordinarily harsh ways.
I'm done talking about Hannity now. :)
I think the left has become more like the right over the last years in that they pay less attention to what opposition pundits like Hannity or Limbaugh say. You don't see the uproar you used to. Media Matters may still be obsessed with them, but it seems the interest by the left in general has waned. That's just from my own observation.
RE: Freedom of press. - hollodero - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 12:07 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I think the left has become more like the right over the last years in that they pay less attention to what opposition pundits like Hannity or Limbaugh say. You don't see the uproar you used to. Media Matters may still be obsessed with them, but it seems the interest by the left in general has waned. That's just from my own observation.
Well, the right sure seems to care a lot what the "left" media says. It's almost all Trump does, isn't it?
Also Hannity. You don't claim left media has declared war on the American people when you actually don't pay attention. (Can't get done taking about Hannity, obviously)
RE: Freedom of press. - michaelsean - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 12:20 PM)hollodero Wrote: Well, the right sure seems to care a lot what the "left" media says. It's almost all Trump does, isn't it?
Also Hannity. You don't claim left media has declared war on the American people when you actually don't pay attention. (Can't get done taking about Hannity, obviously)
They care about what the see as an overall bias in the media in general, but what self-described liberals say doesn't bother them much. so what they are saying is quit purporting to be unbiased.
RE: Freedom of press. - hollodero - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 12:25 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They care about what the see as an overall bias in the media in general, but what self-described liberals say doesn't bother them much. so what they are saying is quit purporting to be unbiased.
Hm.
Two questions. What instances is Trump referring to when he calls certain media outlets, or specifically CNN, "fake news"?
Second question, if it's not about the commentators but the pure news coverage itself, would you personally say that CNN is biased (or "fake")?
This is not meant to be a trap, I honestly want to know. My stance would be, the pure news segment of CNN is not really biased at all. I look more on their web page though then watching it.
RE: Freedom of press. - GMDino - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 12:25 PM)michaelsean Wrote: They care about what the see as an overall bias in the media in general, but what self-described liberals say doesn't bother them much. so what they are saying is quit purporting to be unbiased.
That would fly more if every time they show the President lied or was mistaken it wasn't called "biased" and "fake news".
There's this story about a little boy who cried wolf....
RE: Freedom of press. - michaelsean - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 12:38 PM)hollodero Wrote: Hm.
Two questions. What instances is Trump referring to when he calls certain media outlets, or specifically CNN, "fake news"?
Second question, if it's not about the commentators but the pure news coverage itself, would you personally say that CNN is biased (or "fake")?
This is not meant to be a trap, I honestly want to know. My stance would be, the pure news segment of CNN is not really biased at all. I look more on their web page though then watching it.
I believe that there probably is a left of center bias. (I know our left are the equivalent of raging fascists in Austria but I'll stick with the term.
) The reason I say this is I don't think anyone can remove their biases completely, and I think it's been shown that the majority of mainstream reporters are left of center to varying degrees. As for what Trump says, I have no idea what specifically he is referring to day to day when he's talking about fake news.
RE: Freedom of press. - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 02-21-2017
(02-21-2017, 04:26 AM)hollodero Wrote: Room, elephant, you can't hide.
I won't talk too much, though. You do the talking, I do the listening. I do need to start the talk of course, so let's talk Sean Hannity.
Who said the left wing media has declared war on Donald Trump and hence, has declared war on the American people.
I am all for free speech, free press, you can bash them, they can bash you, all that. But of course there are some logical boundaries to that (e.g. I can't go on TV and tell people that I demand them to kill all Inuits, I can't falsely accuse someone of rape and murder and such). What do you, what does especially the right say to that particular Sean Hannity piece? OK, cool or maybe just a bit much?
(Said words are spoken at about 2:35 in this clip)
Additionally, free press, fake news... discuss.
There are boundaries, I completely agree, and Hannity is fond of stepping over them. He is, however, considered by many (most?) to be a bit of a fringe commentator. Not quite as fringe as Alex Jones, but he's in that spectrum. While Hannity and his ilk are certainly a problem the real issue is that the distance between them and "legitimate" journalism has shrunk by an order of magnitude. The "legitimate" press now apparently has no issue with branding people neo-nazis, fascists, anti-semites, white supremacists, xenophobes, bigots or any of many other serious allegations. This is largely done based on tenuous or anecdotal evidence, the fact that some people find their political opinions disagreeable or just because they made an offhand remark thirty years ago.
Trump is way out of control with his attacks on the press but the press is largely responsible for the negative view many of the public have of them. Hard news articles are frequently peppered with editorial comments. If the press wants to be taking seriously again by the part of the public that no longer does then they need to start reporting facts, cease engaging in conjecture and stop throwing editorial comments in hard news items.