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NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-13-2017
As you can see from the list below, Michael Jordan is in good company, tied at 10th place for the NBA's GOAT. After all, we measure by championships, right?
11 Bill Russell
Boston Celtics
1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69
10 Sam Jones
Boston Celtics
1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69
8 John Havlicek
Boston Celtics
1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69, 1973-74, 1975-76
8 Tom Heinsohn
Boston Celtics
1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65
8 K.C. Jones
Boston Celtics
1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66
8 Tom Sanders
Boston Celtics
1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64, 1964-65, 1965-66, 1967-68, 1968-69
7 Robert Horry
Houston Rockets
1993-94, 1994-95
Los Angeles Lakers
1999-00, 2000-01, 2001-02
San Antonio Spurs
2004-05, 2006-07
7 Jim Loscutoff
Boston Celtics
1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64
7 Frank Ramsey
Boston Celtics
1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63, 1963-64
6 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Los Angeles Lakers
1979-80, 1981-82, 1984-85, 1986-87, 1987-88
Milwaukee Bucks
1970-71
6 Bob Cousy
Boston Celtics
1956-57, 1958-59, 1959-60, 1960-61, 1961-62, 1962-63
6 Michael Jordan
Chicago Bulls
1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97, 1997-98
6 Scottie Pippen
Chicago Bulls
1990-91, 1991-92, 1992-93, 1995-96, 1996-97, 1997-98
I wonder why the guys on Jordan's jock don't spend less time trying to convince people he is better than LeBron (which is debatable) and more time trying to convince people of the more winnable argument that he is better than Jim Loscutoff, Frank Ramsey, or Robert Horry. Well, I do know why they don't do that. Math. 7>6.
So, Jordanaires (see what I did there), here's a thought. Why don't you try to cement Michael's spot at 10 and argue Pippen, Cousy and Abdul-Jabbar belong behind him on the list?
What do you think?
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-13-2017
Well, there is a compelling argument that Ron Harper would have leap-frogged into ninth place had he played on those early teams with Jordan. Is Harper as good as Jordan? Better, but just unlucky to be where he was when he was? It's a conversation worth having. After all, 6 is only slightly greater than 5, and Harper had to overcome a speech impediment so he is a sentimental favorite.
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-13-2017
What about Jim Pollard and Slater Martin you say? I know, I know. I've heard the case made - both are arguably better than Jordan, but that extra ring Michael has, the Jordanaires are going to throw that in your face all day, while ignoring the extra five (literally a handful) that Bill Russell has.
![[Image: bill_russell_by_finnland101-d68aglu.jpg]](http://img05.deviantart.net/8895/i/2013/159/f/d/bill_russell_by_finnland101-d68aglu.jpg)
RE: NBA GOAT - jason - 06-13-2017
Robert Horry is greater than Jordan... Never lost in the finals, and swept the Magic... Big Shot Bob.
RE: NBA GOAT - jason - 06-13-2017
Surely this thread is a lil tongue in cheek, but xxlt brings up a great point. The facinaton with counting rings has ruined the NBA. It's the reason Karl Malone is looked at as a lesser player than Tim Duncan. It's the reason LeBron jumped ship and went to Miami. It's certainly the reason Durant ran to the sure thing in Golden State. If only Barkley and Ewing would have been smart enough to team up with the Bulls instead of trying to beat them. All in all, it's weak. I also found it uncomfortable the way KD's mom was talking to him post game... "You did it baby!... It don't matter what they say!" Dude's just sobbing away while she's talking to him.
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-14-2017
(06-13-2017, 01:24 PM)jason Wrote: Robert Horry is greater than Jordan... Never lost in the finals, and swept the Magic... Big Shot Bob.
That's what I'm talking about! And Morris Day was prescient singing about Horry - Horry - O!
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-14-2017
(06-13-2017, 05:10 PM)jason Wrote: Surely this thread is a lil tongue in cheek, but xxlt brings up a great point. The facinaton with counting rings has ruined the NBA. It's the reason Karl Malone is looked at as a lesser player than Tim Duncan. It's the reason LeBron jumped ship and went to Miami. It's certainly the reason Durant ran to the sure thing in Golden State. If only Barkley and Ewing would have been smart enough to team up with the Bulls instead of trying to beat them. All in all, it's weak. I also found it uncomfortable the way KD's mom was talking to him post game... "You did it baby!... It don't matter what they say!" Dude's just sobbing away while she's talking to him.
Excellent point re: the Mailman. He somehow isn't on the list of the top 10, or even top 100 because, you know, no rings! So clearly, he was not a great, or even a good player according to Lord of the Rings logic. Dude was an absolute beast at both ends of the floor, #2 all time scoring...
RE: NBA GOAT - BengalHawk62 - 06-14-2017
NBA Coaching GOAT?
Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-15-2017
(06-14-2017, 04:46 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: NBA Coaching GOAT?
Red Auerbach or Phil Jackson
Math says Phil. How could anyone argue with that?
And by the way, shouldn't they be changing the name of the Lombardi Trophy to the Dahlen Trophy? (Google it!)
RE: NBA GOAT - BengalHawk62 - 06-15-2017
So your all time All NBA team is going to consist of the following:
Bill Russell
Sam Jones
John Havlicek
Tom Heinsohn
K.C. Jones
That's a team full of great players. Wonderful. Just wonderful players. Tons and tons of titles between them all. All former Celtics. You really should look outside of Boston for great players though.
Here's mine.
Wilt Chamberlin
Tim Duncan
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
If everyone was in their prime, Who's team would win in a best of 7 series?
RE: NBA GOAT - jason - 06-15-2017
(06-15-2017, 06:28 AM)xxlt Wrote: Math says Phil. How could anyone argue with that?
And by the way, shouldn't they be changing the name of the Lombardi Trophy to the Dahlen Trophy? (Google it!)
I'm pretty sure the Steve Kerr/ Mike Brown saga this year proved once and for all that coaching doesn't matter in the NBA.
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-15-2017
(06-15-2017, 09:43 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: So your all time All NBA team is going to consist of the following:
Bill Russell
Sam Jones
John Havlicek
Tom Heinsohn
K.C. Jones
That's a team full of great players. Wonderful. Just wonderful players. Tons and tons of titles between them all. All former Celtics. You really should look outside of Boston for great players though.
Here's mine.
Wilt Chamberlin
Tim Duncan
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
If everyone was in their prime, Who's team would win in a best of 7 series?
Celtic free you say. No problem.
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Karl Malone
Julius Erving
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-15-2017
(06-15-2017, 09:43 AM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: So your all time All NBA team is going to consist of the following:
Bill Russell
Sam Jones
John Havlicek
Tom Heinsohn
K.C. Jones
That's a team full of great players. Wonderful. Just wonderful players. Tons and tons of titles between them all. All former Celtics. You really should look outside of Boston for great players though.
Here's mine.
Wilt Chamberlin
Tim Duncan
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
If everyone was in their prime, Who's team would win in a best of 7 series?
Sorry, I forgot to address that question. Based on the fact Russell never lost to Chamberlain (and the total domination of the Celtics on the list you made) and using the logic that "Championships is how we measure greatness," I would say the Celtic team. And, for the record, I hate the Celtics. LOL. Also, funny you couldn't resist putting Larry Legend in your all time starting five. (He would be on mine too if you lifted the no Celtic restriction, lol.)
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-15-2017
(06-15-2017, 10:42 AM)jason Wrote: I'm pretty sure the Steve Kerr/ Mike Brown saga this year proved once and for all that coaching doesn't matter in the NBA.
Interesting. I agree with your earlier observation so for that and other reasons the league is more or less dead to me at this point, LOL, so I don't really get the Kerr/Brown reference.
That said, Pat Riley had some interesting things to say about the notion that coaching didn't matter back when he coached what the rest of the league called "The Fakers." And their record against the rest of the league was pretty impressive, and Pat literally got the job because nobody else wanted it. Showtime is a good read if you haven't read it yet and probably 99 cents at the book store these days.
RE: NBA GOAT - BengalHawk62 - 06-15-2017
(06-15-2017, 01:33 PM)xxlt Wrote: Celtic free you say. No problem.
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Karl Malone
Julius Erving
Magic Johnson
Oscar Robertson
Magic is already on mine. You can't have him!
Find another Point Guard. You can have Celtics on your team. I was just mentioning out of the list above, the top 5 were all Celtics. Why is that? Sure the Celtics won year after year, but how many teams were in the NBA in 1960? 30? 25? 20? Where's the competition coming from?Nah, my team still beats your team.
The number of championships won is not the only criteria of greatness. its one unit of the measurement.
RE: NBA GOAT - BengalHawk62 - 06-15-2017
If someone can create a Legends of the NBA Playstation game, I'd be all over it. You choose your team out of everyone who ever played, that'd be a fun game to play.
The NFL had something like that with Tecmo Super Bowl, when you could play as the AFC or NFC Pro-Bowlers. But if the NBA could come up with a game like that with all the great ones of yester-year.
Seriously though for everyone out here........who is on your All Time All NBA Dream team?
Shaq?
Kobe?
Jordan?
Isiah Thomas (the piston)?
Karl Malone?
John Stockton?
Jerry West?
Larry?
Pippen?
Duncan?
The Admiral?
BJ Armstrong?
RE: NBA GOAT - jason - 06-15-2017
(06-15-2017, 03:06 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: If someone can create a Legends of the NBA Playstation game, I'd be all over it. You choose your team out of everyone who ever played, that'd be a fun game to play.
The NFL had something like that with Tecmo Super Bowl, when you could play as the AFC or NFC Pro-Bowlers. But if the NBA could come up with a game like that with all the great ones of yester-year.
Seriously though for everyone out here........who is on your All Time All NBA Dream team?
Shaq?
Kobe?
Jordan?
Isiah Thomas (the piston)?
Karl Malone?
John Stockton?
Jerry West?
Larry?
Pippen?
Duncan?
The Admiral?
BJ Armstrong?
I'm 42 and I'm only going with players that I've actually seen play.
Starters...
Kareem
LeBron James
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Bench...
Shaquille O'Neal
Scottie Pippen
Charles Barkley
Karl Malone
Allen Iverson
Penny Hardaway ( pre injury)
Kevin Durant
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-15-2017
(06-15-2017, 03:00 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Magic is already on mine. You can't have him!
Nah, my team still beats your team.
The number of championships won is not the only criteria of greatness. its one unit of the measurement.
I was gonna put Oscar at point and have Magic at shooting guard, but since you "drafted" him first I will put Maravich at shooting guard and there will be a 3-point shot.
You are so right brother, championships are one unit of measurement, and I had hoped this thread would help many see how useless a unit it is. But apparently the Jordanaires of the world are so offended they can't even respond.
RE: NBA GOAT - xxlt - 06-15-2017
(06-15-2017, 03:51 PM)jason Wrote: I'm 42 and I'm only going with players that I've actually seen play.
Starters...
Kareem
LeBron James
Larry Bird
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Bench...
Shaquille O'Neal
Scottie Pippen
Charles Barkley
Karl Malone
Allen Iverson
Penny Hardaway ( pre injury)
Kevin Durant
I was gonna do a separate thread for who "really" is the best player of all time and best teams... but since it is just you me and Hawk I guess we can just kick it around in here, lol. I like some of your choices, but I would quibble with Shaq. Lousy free throw shooter, not a great defender, slow at times in his career in terms of running the floor, foul prone... I think he's over rated. But I get you weren't going to put Russell or Chamberlain on because you never saw them.
West was a guy I wish I saw more of, as was Elgin Baylor. I did get to see Oscar right at the end, and my dad always told me it was a shame I never got to see "the real Oscar." Still, based on all I have heard about him I would have a hard time leaving him off any all time team and I think he is a serious contender for GOAT.
RE: NBA GOAT - jason - 06-16-2017
(06-15-2017, 09:08 PM)xxlt Wrote: I was gonna do a separate thread for who "really" is the best player of all time and best teams... but since it is just you me and Hawk I guess we can just kick it around in here, lol. I like some of your choices, but I would quibble with Shaq. Lousy free throw shooter, not a great defender, slow at times in his career in terms of running the floor, foul prone... I think he's over rated. But I get you weren't going to put Russell or Chamberlain on because you never saw them.
West was a guy I wish I saw more of, as was Elgin Baylor. I did get to see Oscar right at the end, and my dad always told me it was a shame I never got to see "the real Oscar." Still, based on all I have heard about him I would have a hard time leaving him off any all time team and I think he is a serious contender for GOAT.
I did have other guys to choose from at center though... Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson... I went with Shaq off of physical dominance. I think people hold his size against him... I know they do the same with Wilt. But when Shaq was right he was unstoppable. Lists like this are hard. I found myself omitting some of my all time favorites like Jason Kidd and Gary Payton. I couldn't quite squeeze Tim Duncan in... Maybe I left him off because I hate the whole ring counting thing.