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Myths About Transition Regrets - GMDino - 10-03-2017 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/myths-about-transition-regrets_b_6160626.html Quote:Every few months I find myself reading something written by a person with no actual psychological, psychiatric, or medical training expounding on why they believe transgender people aren’t real, shouldn’t be allowed to transition, or just need some old-school “reparative therapy” complete with screaming, pillow whacking and cuddling with a “therapist.” RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - BmorePat87 - 10-03-2017 hey, a study! RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - Belsnickel - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 10:49 AM)BmorePat87 Wrote: hey, a study! I can't imagine that there is a study done to compile evidence on this thing when they could just take the opinion of someone instead! RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - bfine32 - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 10:51 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I can't imagine that there is a study done to compile evidence on this thing when they could just take the opinion of someone instead! Is the collective saying there are no studies that point to post alteration regrets or are we just shinning light on the ones that support our opinion? Cause we know Huff Post wouldn't dig for studies to support their opinion. RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - Belsnickel - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 11:46 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Is the collective saying there are no studies that point to post alteration regrets or are we just shinning light on the ones that support our opinion? Cause we know Huff Post wouldn't dig for studies to support their opinion. I'm just making a general mocking statement regarding the preference for opinion over evidence. I have zero doubt there are studies that show post-op regrets. RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - GMDino - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 11:46 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Is the collective saying there are no studies that point to post alteration regrets or are we just shinning light on the ones that support our opinion? Cause we know Huff Post wouldn't dig for studies to support their opinion. Perhaps the opposing studies could be shared? Or the studies posted could be reviewed by those who disagree without having other studies? RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - bfine32 - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 11:49 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: I'm just making a general mocking statement regarding the preference for opinion over evidence. I have zero doubt there are studies that show post-op regrets. Unfortunately, I think both sides are more concerned with their agendas than the state of the person. As I've mentioned a number of times; I believe it's a mental condition. Can it be treated? Who knows. I just find it frustrating when it is suggested to be a mental state it is met with ridicule; instead of an earnest discussion. What do folks that dispute it is a mental condition believe it is? RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - Belsnickel - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Unfortunately, I think both sides are more concerned with their agendas than the state of the person. My question would be, how do you qualify "mental condition"? I ask this because it is something that occurs in the brain, as do most things. However, we can point to physiological differences in the brains of straight people compared to gay, and between cis and trans. There is no causal assurance here, but there is correlative evidence. If there is a physiological difference, then it would be something in the genome that is either coded differently, or expresses itself through epigenetics in a different way. I guess what I am saying is that a "mental condition" can have roots in biology, psychology, sociology, or a combination of the three. So what do you refer to as a "mental condition" and do you consider it to be a disorder to be treated, or just a difference in the way their body works? RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 12:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Unfortunately, I think both sides are more concerned with their agendas than the state of the person. Have you read what DSM V has to say? RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - BmorePat87 - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 11:46 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Is the collective saying there are no studies that point to post alteration regrets or are we just shinning light on the ones that support our opinion? Cause we know Huff Post wouldn't dig for studies to support their opinion. According to the first paragraph of the article, this particular study is also used by detractors. The purpose of the article is to dismantle their argument using the study itself and the words of the author. RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - bfine32 - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 12:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: My question would be, how do you qualify "mental condition"? I ask this because it is something that occurs in the brain, as do most things. However, we can point to physiological differences in the brains of straight people compared to gay, and between cis and trans. There is no causal assurance here, but there is correlative evidence. If there is a physiological difference, then it would be something in the genome that is either coded differently, or expresses itself through epigenetics in a different way. I consider it a personality disorder similar to schizophrenia. At the risk of stirring the pot: We were created/evolved in a condition where folks with male organs are men and folks with female organs are women. "Something" in some people causes this to not occur and I think folks are more comfortable with blissful ignorance rather than treatment. Is that "wrong"? RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - BmorePat87 - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 01:19 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I consider it a personality disorder similar to schizophrenia. At the risk of stirring the pot: We were created/evolved in a condition where folks with male organs are men and folks with female organs are women. I guess I'd ask how you define it as such using the DSM criteria. You're comparing it to a very severe mental illness, schizophrenia, which is different from the schizotypal and schizoid personality disorders. Not sure if you meant those or not as I can't see the commonality between being trans and having schizophrenia. Something certainly is wired different in their brains, but I'm not sure hormone therapy or clinical therapy should be called "blissful ignorance" and not a form of "treatment". RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - michaelsean - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 12:11 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: My question would be, how do you qualify "mental condition"? I ask this because it is something that occurs in the brain, as do most things. However, we can point to physiological differences in the brains of straight people compared to gay, and between cis and trans. There is no causal assurance here, but there is correlative evidence. If there is a physiological difference, then it would be something in the genome that is either coded differently, or expresses itself through epigenetics in a different way. Perception of reality? Psychopaths often have a different physiology of the brains. Many mental illnesses result from a difference in the chemistry. Why one thing is considered a mental illness and another thing isn't, I don't know. RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - Belsnickel - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 03:21 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Perception of reality? Psychopaths often have a different physiology of the brains. Many mental illnesses result from a difference in the chemistry. Why one thing is considered a mental illness and another thing isn't, I don't know. What really differentiates a trait/condition from an illness/disorder boils down to it being harmful. The reason Gender Identity Disorder was reclassified to Gender Dysphoria was because it is not longer seen that being gender-non-conforming is a disorder in itself as that is not what is harmful. People can be trans and live happy, healthy lives. But there are people that experience stress and anxiety that comes with being non-conforming, and this is what is classified as dysphoria and is what is harmful. Does that help? RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - michaelsean - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 03:39 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: What really differentiates a trait/condition from an illness/disorder boils down to it being harmful. The reason Gender Identity Disorder was reclassified to Gender Dysphoria was because it is not longer seen that being gender-non-conforming is a disorder in itself as that is not what is harmful. People can be trans and live happy, healthy lives. But there are people that experience stress and anxiety that comes with being non-conforming, and this is what is classified as dysphoria and is what is harmful. I've seen that before and I get it, but is that a generalization? I think believing you are a woman, and not having the physical attributes can be very stressful, and not in a conforming/non-conforming way. I guess that's where gender dysphoria comes in, but to me it seems 6 one way, half a dozen the other. "No this is not a mental order, but all the bad shit you feel because of it is." Is schizophrenia not a mental illness until it causes problems? On another point, a sociopath can live a happy healthy life. It's still a psychosis. I'm not trying to argue here as much as understand. RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - Belsnickel - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 04:18 PM)michaelsean Wrote: I've seen that before and I get it, but is that a generalization? I think believing you are a woman, and not having the physical attributes can be very stressful, and not in a conforming/non-conforming way. I guess that's where gender dysphoria comes in, but to me it seems 6 one way, half a dozen the other. "No this is not a mental order, but all the bad shit you feel because of it is." Is schizophrenia not a mental illness until it causes problems? First, to the bolded, I understand that. I didn't think you were arguing, so I'm not approaching it that way. One of the major components of schizophrenia is cognitive dysfunction, so generally speaking, if one has schizophrenia then this is going to be an issue. This in itself would be a harmful thing. As far as psychopathy/sociopathy, it will get classified as a disorder because of the impairment of the ability to effectively interact with others. So these illnesses/disorders, by themselves, cause issues. What separates this from someone that is trans is that being trans in itself is not the harmful part. What causes problems is the dysphoria that can come about from it which is often much more of a sociological and psychological factor than biological. Though admittedly, if someone already has a biological predisposition to anxiety or depression, it could be exacerbated. Anyway, this is just me talking about it from a broader social science perspective, not a psychological expert. RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - Belsnickel - 10-03-2017 Interestingly enough, this guy argues that mental disorders shouldn't really be called disorders, at all, and that they are non-existent: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rethinking-mental-health/201307/the-new-definition-mental-disorder And here is one more to muddy the waters even further: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-mysteries-love/201503/what-is-psychological-disorder And one more, just for good measure: http://open.lib.umn.edu/intropsyc/chapter/12-1-psychological-disorder-what-makes-a-behavior-abnormal/ RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - StLucieBengal - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 04:38 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: First, to the bolded, I understand that. I didn't think you were arguing, so I'm not approaching it that way. Wanting to mutilate yourself because you have visions or "feelings" of being the opposite sec isn't harmful? RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - Belsnickel - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 04:52 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Wanting to mutilate yourself because you have visions or "feelings" of being the opposite sec isn't harmful? First, not all trans people seek out surgical options. Second, using language that dismisses the situation as trivial is being intentionally derogatory. It would be appreciated if that was refrained from, and until the disparagement of the trans community ceases I am going to cease responding to your posts on the topic. RE: Myths About Transition Regrets - michaelsean - 10-03-2017 (10-03-2017, 04:48 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Interestingly enough, this guy argues that mental disorders shouldn't really be called disorders, at all, and that they are non-existent: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/rethinking-mental-health/201307/the-new-definition-mental-disorder I'm not sure what the first guy is arguing? Just the general label and definition mental illness? Does he think the specific illnesses don't even exist? |