(01-02-2018, 08:33 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Problem is Mike Brown and his antiquated ideals as to what makes a successful franchise.  Until he changes his philosophy from building almost entirely from the draft this team is capped at making a playoff appearance at best.  

The reasoning is that TEAMS win championships and you cannot build a Championship roster of players via the draft.  It’s just not going to happen because you have guys developing and peaking at different times.  As we’ve seen now we lose guys once they’ve peaked and have to go right back to developing new guys.  We went through two cycles with Palmer and now we are on our second cycle with Dalton.  Only the downward cycle at o-line destroyed Palmers elbow.  

Marvin’s drafted real well as one could expect but they are still filling in holes with what are most likely rotational to mediocre guys from other teams late in free agency and expecting too much out of some of our later draft picks.  

So until Brown changes his philosophy on free agency and stops promoting rejects within the organization to Coordinator positions / position coaches, it doesn’t matter who the head coach is.  

On a side note...I don’t know who wields the power to bench underperforming players but I’d like to see some accountability and less job security for repeat underperforming offenders going forward.  /rant

(01-02-2018, 08:33 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Problem is Mike Brown and his antiquated ideals as to what makes a successful franchise.  Until he changes his philosophy from building almost entirely from the draft this team is capped at making a playoff appearance at best.  

The reasoning is that TEAMS win championships and you cannot build a Championship roster of players via the draft.  It’s just not going to happen because you have guys developing and peaking at different times.  As we’ve seen now we lose guys once they’ve peaked and have to go right back to developing new guys.  We went through two cycles with Palmer and now we are on our second cycle with Dalton.  Only the downward cycle at o-line destroyed Palmers elbow.  

Marvin’s drafted real well as one could expect but they are still filling in holes with what are most likely rotational to mediocre guys from other teams late in free agency and expecting too much out of some of our later draft picks.  

So until Brown changes his philosophy on free agency and stops promoting rejects within the organization to Coordinator positions / position coaches, it doesn’t matter who the head coach is.  

On a side note...I don’t know who wields the power to bench underperforming players but I’d like to see some accountability and less job security for repeat underperforming offenders going forward.  /rant

(01-02-2018, 08:33 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Problem is Mike Brown and his antiquated ideals as to what makes a successful franchise.  Until he changes his philosophy from building almost entirely from the draft this team is capped at making a playoff appearance at best.  

The reasoning is that TEAMS win championships and you cannot build a Championship roster of players via the draft.  It’s just not going to happen because you have guys developing and peaking at different times.  As we’ve seen now we lose guys once they’ve peaked and have to go right back to developing new guys.  We went through two cycles with Palmer and now we are on our second cycle with Dalton.  Only the downward cycle at o-line destroyed Palmers elbow.  

Marvin’s drafted real well as one could expect but they are still filling in holes with what are most likely rotational to mediocre guys from other teams late in free agency and expecting too much out of some of our later draft picks.  

So until Brown changes his philosophy on free agency and stops promoting rejects within the organization to Coordinator positions / position coaches, it doesn’t matter who the head coach is.  

On a side note...I don’t know who wields the power to bench underperforming players but I’d like to see some accountability and less job security for repeat underperforming offenders going forward.  /rant

(01-02-2018, 08:33 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Problem is Mike Brown and his antiquated ideals as to what makes a successful franchise.  Until he changes his philosophy from building almost entirely from the draft this team is capped at making a playoff appearance at best.  

The reasoning is that TEAMS win championships and you cannot build a Championship roster of players via the draft.  It’s just not going to happen because you have guys developing and peaking at different times.  As we’ve seen now we lose guys once they’ve peaked and have to go right back to developing new guys.  We went through two cycles with Palmer and now we are on our second cycle with Dalton.  Only the downward cycle at o-line destroyed Palmers elbow.  

Marvin’s drafted real well as one could expect but they are still filling in holes with what are most likely rotational to mediocre guys from other teams late in free agency and expecting too much out of some of our later draft picks.  

So until Brown changes his philosophy on free agency and stops promoting rejects within the organization to Coordinator positions / position coaches, it doesn’t matter who the head coach is.  

On a side note...I don’t know who wields the power to bench underperforming players but I’d like to see some accountability and less job security for repeat underperforming offenders going forward.  /rant

(01-02-2018, 08:33 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Problem is Mike Brown and his antiquated ideals as to what makes a successful franchise.  Until he changes his philosophy from building almost entirely from the draft this team is capped at making a playoff appearance at best.  

The reasoning is that TEAMS win championships and you cannot build a Championship roster of players via the draft.  It’s just not going to happen because you have guys developing and peaking at different times.  As we’ve seen now we lose guys once they’ve peaked and have to go right back to developing new guys.  We went through two cycles with Palmer and now we are on our second cycle with Dalton.  Only the downward cycle at o-line destroyed Palmers elbow.  

Marvin’s drafted real well as one could expect but they are still filling in holes with what are most likely rotational to mediocre guys from other teams late in free agency and expecting too much out of some of our later draft picks.  

So until Brown changes his philosophy on free agency and stops promoting rejects within the organization to Coordinator positions / position coaches, it doesn’t matter who the head coach is.  

On a side note...I don’t know who wields the power to bench underperforming players but I’d like to see some accountability and less job security for repeat underperforming offenders going forward.  /rant

(01-02-2018, 08:33 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Problem is Mike Brown and his antiquated ideals as to what makes a successful franchise.  Until he changes his philosophy from building almost entirely from the draft this team is capped at making a playoff appearance at best.  

The reasoning is that TEAMS win championships and you cannot build a Championship roster of players via the draft.  It’s just not going to happen because you have guys developing and peaking at different times.  As we’ve seen now we lose guys once they’ve peaked and have to go right back to developing new guys.  We went through two cycles with Palmer and now we are on our second cycle with Dalton.  Only the downward cycle at o-line destroyed Palmers elbow.  

Marvin’s drafted real well as one could expect but they are still filling in holes with what are most likely rotational to mediocre guys from other teams late in free agency and expecting too much out of some of our later draft picks.  

So until Brown changes his philosophy on free agency and stops promoting rejects within the organization to Coordinator positions / position coaches, it doesn’t matter who the head coach is.  

On a side note...I don’t know who wields the power to bench underperforming players but I’d like to see some accountability and less job security for repeat underperforming offenders going forward.  /rant

(01-02-2018, 08:33 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Problem is Mike Brown and his antiquated ideals as to what makes a successful franchise.  Until he changes his philosophy from building almost entirely from the draft this team is capped at making a playoff appearance at best.  

The reasoning is that TEAMS win championships and you cannot build a Championship roster of players via the draft.  It’s just not going to happen because you have guys developing and peaking at different times.  As we’ve seen now we lose guys once they’ve peaked and have to go right back to developing new guys.  We went through two cycles with Palmer and now we are on our second cycle with Dalton.  Only the downward cycle at o-line destroyed Palmers elbow.  

Marvin’s drafted real well as one could expect but they are still filling in holes with what are most likely rotational to mediocre guys from other teams late in free agency and expecting too much out of some of our later draft picks.  

So until Brown changes his philosophy on free agency and stops promoting rejects within the organization to Coordinator positions / position coaches, it doesn’t matter who the head coach is.  

On a side note...I don’t know who wields the power to bench underperforming players but I’d like to see some accountability and less job security for repeat underperforming offenders going forward.  /rant

(01-09-2018, 12:02 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: You finally figured this out??  

(01-09-2018, 11:24 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree to some extent, but another problem is the Bengals don't utilize their players on rookie contracts enough and/or draft good enough players that can contribute within their first 1-2 years and be at least serviceable.

Meanwhile, you have the Saints and Falcons getting a TON of production from their recent draft picks from the past 2-3 years and it's why they've been as successful as they have been.

(01-09-2018, 11:23 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Is there anyone who has said anything otherwise? (Other than Mike Brown and Merv, that is)

(01-09-2018, 05:59 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals get as much, if not more, out of rookies and young players as the average NFL team.

These numbers do not include 2017, but they cover 10 years so it does not make much difference.

According to profootballreference over the last ten years there have been 227 different rookies who started at least 14 games. Since there are 32 teams that is an average of 7.1 per team. Over the last ten years the Bengals have 7 different rookies who have started at least 14 games.


When we expand it beyond just rookie seasons it does not change very much. Looking at the first three seasons of every player's career over the last 10 years there were 785 who had at least one season with at least 14 starts in his first three years. That is an average of 24.5 per team, and the Bengals have had 24.

233 players had two seasons with at least 14 starts in their first 3 years. That is an average of 7.6 per team and the Bengals have had 7.

Only 80 players started at least 14 games in each of their first three seasons. That is an average of 2.5 per team and the Bengals have had 3.

(01-02-2018, 08:33 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: Problem is Mike Brown and his antiquated ideals as to what makes a successful franchise.  Until he changes his philosophy from building almost entirely from the draft this team is capped at making a playoff appearance at best.  

The reasoning is that TEAMS win championships and you cannot build a Championship roster of players via the draft.  It’s just not going to happen because you have guys developing and peaking at different times.  As we’ve seen now we lose guys once they’ve peaked and have to go right back to developing new guys.  We went through two cycles with Palmer and now we are on our second cycle with Dalton.  Only the downward cycle at o-line destroyed Palmers elbow.  

Marvin’s drafted real well as one could expect but they are still filling in holes with what are most likely rotational to mediocre guys from other teams late in free agency and expecting too much out of some of our later draft picks.  

So until Brown changes his philosophy on free agency and stops promoting rejects within the organization to Coordinator positions / position coaches, it doesn’t matter who the head coach is.  

On a side note...I don’t know who wields the power to bench underperforming players but I’d like to see some accountability and less job security for repeat underperforming offenders going forward.  /rant

(01-09-2018, 01:55 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: I’ve known this awhile.  Just thought I’d put it out there since there’s a lot of talk about Marvin Lewis being the issue with why we can’t succeed in the postseason.  While he may be a part of it...it’s 99% Mike Brown and his antiquated ways.  

He seems more interested in running this franchise as a family business outreach program for football players who wouldn’t have a team if not for the Bengals.  

If he strictly ran the franchise as the Patriots do...rewarding good performance and cutting players when they don’t better the team he’d attract better character players and a winning environment.