![]() |
How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" (/Thread-How-corporations-came-to-be-viewed-as-people) |
How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Bengalzona - 03-06-2018 An interesting article I found: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/03/corporations-people-adam-winkler/554852/ Quote:'Corporations Are People' Is Built on an Incredible 19th-Century Lie RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - GMDino - 03-06-2018 (03-06-2018, 01:09 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: An interesting article I found: NPR did a segment on this last week or the week before. Fascinating stuff. Although it just leads me to believe people always put money in front of other people and our generation is just as crappy as the rest. ![]() RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Dill - 03-06-2018 (03-06-2018, 01:09 PM)Bengalzona Wrote: An interesting article I found: When I hear people insisting corporations are people cuz they are "made up of people," I ask if corporations can get married and have children. Can they serve in the Military? That was a great read, B-zona. :andy: :andy: “Civil Rights of Corporations.” Indeed, in a feat of deceitful legal alchemy, Southern Pacific and its wily legal team had, with the help of an audacious Supreme Court justice, set up the Fourteenth Amendment to be more of a bulwark for the rights of businesses than the rights of minorities. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - SunsetBengal - 03-06-2018 (03-06-2018, 01:13 PM)GMDino Wrote: NPR did a segment on this last week or the week before. Fascinating stuff. Anytime anyone mentions NPR, my mind goes right to those SNL skits from way back when. You know the ones, "Pete's Schweaty Balls". ![]() But honestly, this is a great piece of little known history, that I was completely unaware of. Just goes to show that Lawyers and Businessmen were just as crooked and unscrupulous back then, as they are today. Awesome share, Bengalzona! RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Belsnickel - 03-06-2018 Good article on this. I had learned about this in a poli sci class some time ago. The number of precedents that exist in our governmental framework that are based on bullshit like this is astounding. There are a lot of quirks like this and others that are interesting to learn about. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - SunsetBengal - 03-06-2018 (03-06-2018, 09:27 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Good article on this. I had learned about this in a poli sci class some time ago. The number of precedents that exist in our governmental framework that are based on bullshit like this is astounding. There are a lot of quirks like this and others that are interesting to learn about. Do you find it odd, that no one has ever made any serious push to make these things widely known, or to propose correcting them? Back at that time, the percentage of mostly agrarian and lay people likely weren't as politically engaged, as they are today. So, I could understand the lack of any serious "outrage" from the public, at that time. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Belsnickel - 03-06-2018 (03-06-2018, 09:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Do you find it odd, that no one has ever made any serious push to make these things widely known, or to propose correcting them? One thing that I have learned in studying government and how it works is that our country has a habit of romanticizing the past. Once something becomes a precedent or a tradition it is held onto like a death grip. I'm against progress for the sake of progress, especially when it is unfettered. But the way in which we hold onto these things is one of the reasons, in my opinion, that we have a lot of the problems in our government that we have. As for people learning about it, well, it's not as sexy a topic as the more controversial stuff so it doesn't get any attention. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - ballsofsteel - 03-07-2018 This reminds me of the book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by Edward Griffin. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Dill - 03-07-2018 (03-06-2018, 09:37 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Do you find it odd, that no one has ever made any serious push to make these things widely known, or to propose correcting them? I think one could argue that "agrarians" in the late 19th century were as political as they are now. The difference is that they had a better understanding of who the real "elites" were. Think of the Populist Party. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Belsnickel - 03-07-2018 (03-07-2018, 11:40 AM)Dill Wrote: I think one could argue that "agrarians" in the late 19th century were as political as they are now. Well, the issue is that movements like the Populist Party were crushed by the elites as they used racial lines to divide us. It happened with the Populists and led to the Jim Crow era. It happened after the civil rights movement. Both times we saw all of the poor come together to fight the elites and then they broke it up and caused the races to fight each other. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - mallorian69 - 03-07-2018 (03-06-2018, 08:35 PM)Dill Wrote: When I hear people insisting corporations are people cuz they are "made up of people," I ask if corporations can get married and have children. Can they serve in the Military?Well corporations can merge which is basically a marriage and they can spin off subsidiaries which are kinda like children. There are also companies that have taken over jobs that the military used to do for itself such as providing security and logistics so in a sense they do serve in the military. Just saying. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Dill - 03-07-2018 (03-07-2018, 05:54 PM)mallorian69 Wrote: Well corporations can merge which is basically a marriage and they can spin off subsidiaries which are kinda like children. There are also companies that have taken over jobs that the military used to do for itself such as providing security and logistics so in a sense they do serve in the military. Just saying. Still a metaphor though, right? They can also "die" and be "born," but not with gender. And they can't vote as a person. When people marry they are still legally two people with separate votes (at least in the U.S.). And civilian contractors serve the military, but are not IN it. Corporations may "die," but for their country? Cover a grenade to save their buddies? Another way to look at this--what can corporations do that people can't?--like exist primarily on a piece of paper, and in more than one country at the same time. They can also be legally "owned" and inherited. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - fredtoast - 03-07-2018 The industrial revolution and the rise of corporate power changed everything. That is one of the biggest reasons we can't look at "the intent of the framers" when interpreting the Constitution. It was drafted in a totally different age. Back then "limited government" meant more freedom for the citizens. Today "limited government" means more citizens being oppressed and exploited by the power of corporations. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Dill - 03-07-2018 (03-07-2018, 06:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The industrial revolution and the rise of corporate power changed everything. Well said. Classical liberalism was revolutionary vis a vis feudal monarchies. By 1890 it was the corporate status quo and a check on government protections. RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Belsnickel - 03-07-2018 (03-07-2018, 06:40 PM)Dill Wrote: Well said. Classical liberalism was revolutionary vis a vis feudal monarchies. By 1890 it was the corporate status quo and a check on government protections. So, correct me if I am wrong, but what you seem to be saying is that progressive movements were aimed at insuring the citizens retained the liberties that classical liberalism had worked to enshrine, but in an atmosphere where corporate interests thrived. Something that classical liberals were unable to account for in their establishment of our republic as the industrial revolution had not been dreamed up. Or something along those lines. ![]() RE: How corporations came to be viewed as "people" - Dill - 03-07-2018 (03-07-2018, 08:08 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: So, correct me if I am wrong, but what you seem to be saying is that progressive movements were aimed at insuring the citizens retained the liberties that classical liberalism had worked to enshrine, but in an atmosphere where corporate interests thrived. Something that classical liberals were unable to account for in their establishment of our republic as the industrial revolution had not been dreamed up. Not just "progressive" movements. Fred said it better, but yes. And I would go a step further and add that, in the U.S., strict adherence to tenets of classical liberalism (like freedom of contract, right to private property, and limited government) was used to deprive many of all but the legal formality of inalienable rights during the last quarter of the 19th century. (The problem appears earlier in England, Germany and France.) As you well know, the struggle for and against government protection, the role of government in market and private life, continues today. Classical liberals of '76 (Jefferson, Madison, Adam Smith) were understandably unable to foresee child labor, "neighborhood effects" like pollution, 13-story buildings with no fire escape, and the willingness of unscrupulous meat packers to can and sell already rotten beef, etc. In 1790 they were rightly focused on the problem of majority "factions" capturing the government; the massive wealth of a Rockefeller or Morgan, and the power it brought private individuals, they could not envision. (Imagine the powerful German government negotiating massive state loans with J.P. Morgan, a "mere" private citizen.) Post Civil War, the new "social" or "progressive" liberals invoked the state's duty to protect citizens and secure their freedoms in order to challenge the classical liberals' appeal to freedom from government. That is where we stand today, with new liberals (or "far leftists" as they are laughably called) battling old liberals over budgets and policy. |