(03-16-2018, 05:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Four game suspension saves us $1.7 million we can use to sign another free agent.

Haven't read all 4 pages, but no way in hell do we release Burfict over this.  Our defense sucked without him.

(03-16-2018, 05:32 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Really? Against the Steelers last season he kicked their FB in the head and later in the game looked over his shoulder to see the FB coming his way and then flung his hands out to hit him in the head. Plus there was the Titans game last year when he stepped on a players arm and then got ejected for touching the ref. I'm sure there's more, but those were both last season and both off the top of my head.

(03-16-2018, 06:08 PM)The Gooney Rule Wrote: I would contend that the extra curriculars happen in every game from players on every team. 

Burfict is our enforcer, something these modern Bengals have been without for far too long, and it just so happens that he plays in the same division and represents the biggest threat to the league's preferred team. 

Nothing that happens in Cincy/Pissburgh games are on the up-and-up, and there really should be little doubt or surprise that the Steelers shamelessly try to stir up controversy and then cry foul to capitalize on their baked-in advantage. 

(03-16-2018, 06:10 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I get that. However, he's been fined and suspended multiple times for these actions and others. He should knock it off. He can still play physically and still be the enforcer without getting involved in these other things. He just won't. I love that he hates Pittsburgh. I believe he probably hates them as much as we fans do. Just keep it clean. Don't instigate and don't take the bait.

(03-16-2018, 06:22 PM)Yogo Wrote: From the edit in ESPN, it's not as malicious or intentional as the media and our emotions made it out to be initially. I'm willing to slow down and reserve judgement. Don't wanna spend any unnecessary words, energy, and typing yet. I like Tez. Old school passionate football players are being fazed out. He's just ultra competetive like Grayson Allen.

(03-16-2018, 06:28 PM)The Gooney Rule Wrote: Very fair take. 

Can definitely get behind a reform of his impulses (if that's even possible; certainly not as easy thing to do for a lot of people, regardless of how much money is at stake - and I bring up money, because that's a common take on these matters - "he's making millions, and can't stop being selfish while he hurts the team....I just don't think that's how the human mind or emotions work when it comes to acting on impulse.) 

Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt the team. It definitely does, I can agree with you on that. I agree with you on your take to clean it up though for the team's benefit. I'm also saying that even if he doesn't change his ways, what he does manage to give the team is of some value in terms of wins/loses, and for my own selfish fan experience, I like watching him when he's in there. I think his contract is not a make or break issue in the grand scheme of things, and with fear of repeating myself, even at far from the best version of himself, what he brings to the team is better than anybody filling out the final linebacker spot on the roster.

(03-16-2018, 06:04 PM)masterpanthera_t Wrote: It's gotten to the point where personally I'm ready to say enough is enough. Good riddance to Adam Jones. Now I'm not ready to cut Burfict and have him get signed by one of our rivals, but I believe it's time that the Bengals suspend him on their own for conduct detrimental (whether this means an actual suspension or just a benching for some games in addition to the NFL levied suspension, is up to whatever the CBA allows them). I wasn't sure if he is smart enough to get what has been going on for the last few years, but I'm starting to lean towards he probably just isn't ever going to "get it". This internal suspension would be my final chance to see if there's any type of action that can impress upon him the tightest rope he is walking in regards to his career, but if that doesn't do it I'm not sure anything else will. It might already be too late. I know how valuable he is to the defense, and that is the only reason he gets one more chance (in the scenario that I laid out). The defense will suffer big time without him, but I worry if no serious steps are taken, VB will be out of the league soon, and the defense will have to play without him anyway.

Now I will wait and see how his appeal goes, but just based on what I've heard, this excuse of "I was hurt and not playing so I can't be gaining a competitive advantage by taking something" just shows a total lack of intelligence (especially for a fifth or whatever year veteran). I hope that the excuse that I just wrote is not what he actually plans to claim, and I hope this is just a misunderstanding that he can clear up with the NFL and get his suspension overturned, but based on his attitude and the perception of the NFL towards him I'm not optimistic. And for him to think that anything but choirboy behavior is an option for him just emphasizes that he doesn't get it. Fair or not, that's the situation in which he finds himself. I'm neither saying it's fair or otherwise. It's also possible that Marvin has coddled him to the point that Vontaze doesn't have the chance to "get it", but I will give Marvin more credit than that, unless it is shown otherwise (this is only about Marvin's mentoring of VB, not about anything else).

(03-16-2018, 05:54 PM)The Gooney Rule Wrote: Hey there - real quick to start - your name is one of my favorites around here - can never read it without doing it in a Robin Williams/Good Will Hunting voice where he and Matt Damon are having a Taster's Choice moment between guys.

Not sure exactly where you're going with your comment though, except to expect that it comes from the same seemingly bottomless pit of frustration we all probably share from that playoff game. Lot of blame to go around, and I agree there were 3 easy plays/incidents to point to when ticking them off a long list.

But I will contend that Burfict's play was simply incredible that game, and absolutely instrumental in getting us to the point it should have been over. 

For a personal backstory - I was on crutches, and watching the game on a small tablet with a sketchy internet connection halfway around the world, and as soon as Vontaze picked off Pig Ben and took the party to the tunnel, I was gimp-sprinting on adrenaline up and down a hallway at an ungodly hour with the time change, alternating f bombs, who deys, and nature boy whoooo's....such a great feeling to see a big time play like that in such a big game.

I personally have zero problem with the play he made on Brown a little later, having to saddle back up on the field after the unfortunate fumble by Hill. Vontaze is a warrior, and he's going to bring it, and leave it out there. You smack Brown in case he comes down with the ball (the new rules are beyond lame, essentially allowing the refs/league to decide if a receiver should be given the chance to catch, or not catch, a ball without getting popped either way, when it suits them.) 

These plays are bang-bang, and Brown moved into the hit, intentionally or not, and at that point, the game was put in the refs hands (something that will NEVER benefit the Bengals in that scenario.) This was confirmed a few minutes later with the failure to call offsetting penalties on Porter/PacMan. (And just to let us know where we are in the pecking order, recall the league's deference to Pissburgh even later in the year with the fine against Munchak for pulling Reggie's hair quietly rescinded.) 

At any rate, I completely get any disgust for that wildcard game, and certainly the Bengals deserve a healthy amount of heat from the fans for some of their performance, but in regards to whether or not Burfict's current value to the team is in doubt because of this potential suspension, I don't follow where you stand from your comment above. 

Would you feel he can make a positive contribution, even in limited action, beyond what the last LB on the team could do (think Nickerson or Dimanche in past years...)? I'm sure you can tell, I definitely do.



 

(03-16-2018, 06:32 PM)cinci4life Wrote: It's almost like they are trying to find something to suspend Burfict on. There's just no way you can suspend a guy for PEDs when he was already out for the season. What a joke.

(03-16-2018, 06:40 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: Thank you for having a civilized discussion. I really appreciate it. Neither of us are putting each other down, calling each other names, or twisting what the other is saying. Kudos to you!

See, I agree that Burfict greatly improves our D. That's why I want him to be around 16 games instead of 10-12. I'd rather have him on the field 100% of the games instead of closer to 60%. He is, without question, a difference maker for our D.

I love his fire and intensity. I love that he lays the wood. He is the heart and soul of the D. That's why I call him selfish when he gets in trouble and misses time. It has a negative impact on our defense. They're not the same without him on the field. I don't want him to clean it up for the fans, I don't want him to clean it up to save money, I want him to clean it up because he owes it to the team and his teammates.

I agree that he does add value regardless of how many games he plays, but that's why I want him to play in all of them. You and I have a very similar view of Burfict. I don't quite think he's a once in a generation type player, but he's one of the greatest LBs in team history for sure. If he were on the team 30 years ago, we'd beat Montana and the 49ers in the Super Bowl.

Though I've been called a hater and bad fan, I actually like Burfict. He's just a distraction and a headache. If he can't clean it up, I want him gone. It's not about his talent or ability, he has plenty of both. It's about playing smarter and within the rules.

(03-16-2018, 07:01 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Lmao This is classic. Some of you guys were just giving the few of us a hard time on the trade thread. This is one of the reasons that we didn’t mind the trade idea, get it now?????

(03-16-2018, 05:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Four game suspension saves us $1.7 million we can use to sign another free agent.

Haven't read all 4 pages, but no way in hell do we release Burfict over this.  Our defense sucked without him.

(03-16-2018, 03:50 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Too many conversations going on here. He was popped for PEDS. That means it was not marijuana and it was not pain medication. It was something on the PED list. Now, since he is recovering from multiple concussions and a shoulder injury, I can very well see a doctor giving him steroids to reduce swelling and help healing. If a doctor gave it to him for a legitimate medical reason, just like the guys taking adderal who have legit need and not just to increase focus, then he will win his appeal. If not, he won't. I'm going to wait to see.....

(03-16-2018, 06:10 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I get that. However, he's been fined and suspended multiple times for these actions and others. He should knock it off. He can still play physically and still be the enforcer without getting involved in these other things. He just won't. I love that he hates Pittsburgh. I believe he probably hates them as much as we fans do. Just keep it clean. Don't instigate and don't take the bait.

(03-16-2018, 06:49 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: On any given play Burfict could make a positive contribution. And on any given play he could make a negative contribution negating his previous positive plays. Historically, usually when the team can least afford it. Marvin let's him get away with his crap and makes excuses enabling more crap. The hit on Brown in the playoff game is a prime example of his stupidity which goes back to his college play.