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+---- Thread: Bad Boys II (/Thread-Bad-Boys-II)
RE: Bad Boys II - Belsnickel - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 02:27 PM)hollodero Wrote: There's all kind of weird stuff. Eg. I overheard Al Sharpton critisize the violent protesters for also destroying black-owned stores. I found this an utterly moronic thing to say.
Others blame white agitators, which I also consider weird. Others defend, others excuse. In reality, burning stuff down and looting is a) wrong and b) not helpful to the cause. It seems a real hard task to just state that.
That's the government's official statement in Minnesota right now. They are saying there are white nationalists and other groups stirring things up and that everyone that have been arresting has been from out of state.
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 02:41 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: That's the government's official statement in Minnesota right now. They are saying there are white nationalists and other groups stirring things up and that everyone that have been arresting has been from out of state.
So when Trump claims they are "paid protestors" he means the "very fine people" who love him?
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 02:40 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ok well im wrong about being wrong. And i
Here i was thinking I was right to think i was wrong.
Right.
All seriousness aside it's why I welcome fresh information. I did NOT know that the second event happened...but that's probably because it wasn't as newsworthy as the first. One thing SSF got right is that controversy and drama is what gets printed/aired ("If it bleeds it leads") but that doesn't mean the other stories aren't getting covered because of a bias...it was just not as exciting.
RE: Bad Boys II - Dill - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 02:27 PM)hollodero Wrote: There's all kind of weird stuff. Eg. I overheard Al Sharpton critisize the violent protesters for also destroying black-owned stores. I found this an utterly moronic thing to say.
Others blame white agitators, which I also consider weird. Others defend, others excuse. In reality, burning stuff down and looting is a) wrong and b) not helpful to the cause. It seems a real hard task to just state that.
I don't understand why it is "moronic" to criticize violent protestors for "also destroying black-owned stores." Or is Sharpton's implication that burning down white-owned stories is ok? That reading isn't really supported even in this Fox report.
https://www.foxnews.com/media/al-sharpton-black-owned-stores-destruction-minneapolis-reckless
Also, I don't understand why it would be "weird" to blame white agitators. Local authorities in Minneapolis are doing that, alongside community and civil rights leaders based upon testimony of ground-level eyewitnesses and photographs. One of the problems with recent (since Ferguson) civil rights protests centered on police overreach has been their draw for various groups with broader or other agendas than addressing police violence.
Minnesota Governor to Mobilize National Guard to Confront Agitators
https://www.voanews.com/usa/minnesota-governor-mobilize-national-guard-confront-agitators
The governor of Minnesota called Saturday for the full mobilization of the National Guard to confront what he called a “tightly controlled” group of outside protestors who have engaged in looting, arson and other acts of violence in Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Finally, I am puzzled that anyone would say "it seems a real hard task" to say that burning stuff down and looting is wrong and not helpful to the cause. People have been doing that on the Sunday talk shows all day today. AM Joy had six people doing that all at once, including Joy.
Same with the print media. Sprawling Protest Movement Treads Line Between Justice Agenda and Chaos
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/30/us/george-floyd-protest-minneapolis.html
And, of course, the same on this message board, where pretty much everyone who has spoken on the subject has condemned violence and looting. I haven't heard anyone "excuse or defend" it. (Sometimes, though, analysis of causes gets called "excusing," especially if among the causes is unaddressed police violence.) So far as I can tell, the only place actual support for violence and looting would appear would be on random (and mostly anonymous) venues like commentaries following news articles. I have not seen any support yet, but in the past that is where it has appeared.
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
Amazing watching residents of Minnesota come together to help each other clean up neighborhoods rocked by violence and destruction pic.twitter.com/XQM1fS7psg
— Josh Campbell (@joshscampbell) May 30, 2020
RE: Bad Boys II - 6andcounting - 05-30-2020
(05-29-2020, 06:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: Apparently yesterday there was more video...I guess theyhopedwanted to see if the victim had done anything to deserve being killed.
Late yesterday the autopsy (or maybe the initial autopsy results) was announced publicly. I'd imagine the police knew earlier in the day. I think exact cause of death would impact whether it's murder 2, 3 or manslaughter so maybe that is the evidence they were waiting on. At this point I think this makes the most sense of that comment.
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 06:43 PM)6andcounting Wrote: Late yesterday the autopsy (or maybe the initial autopsy results) was announced publicly. I'd imagine the police knew earlier in the day. I think exact cause of death would impact whether it's murder 2, 3 or manslaughter so maybe that is the evidence they were waiting on. At this point I think this makes the most sense of that comment.
For the charge I can see it. I personally still feel he should have been in custody, maybe even for his own safety. I'm assuming it wouldn't be the first time someone was arrested and held without a charge for a day or so.
RE: Bad Boys II - hollodero - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 03:03 PM)Dill Wrote: I don't understand why it is "moronic" to criticize violent protestors for "also destroying black-owned stores." Or is Sharpton's implication that burning down white-owned stories is ok?
It is besides the point, that's what I mean. For it does not matter if the owner is black or white or asian or anything. I see no reason to make that distinction, I feel it is misplaced and tribal. I consider those words to be thoughtless.
(And sure one reason for that is that his words can easily be construed as saying it is a bit more ok to burn down stores from non-black people. I did not necessarily hear it that way, bit it is not that far-fetched really.)
(05-30-2020, 03:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Also, I don't understand why it would be "weird" to blame white agitators. Local authorities in Minneapolis are doing that, alongside community and civil rights leaders based upon testimony of ground-level eyewitnesses and photographs. One of the problems with recent (since Ferguson) civil rights protests centered on police overreach has been their draw for various groups with broader or other agendas than addressing police violence.
I believe there are agitators, I can very well imagine that they escalate things here and there. I do not believe they are the sole culprits and think that shifting all responsibility away from protesters to agitators is not the honest approach.
(05-30-2020, 03:03 PM)Dill Wrote: Finally, I am puzzled that anyone would say "it seems a real hard task" to say that burning stuff down and looting is wrong and not helpful to the cause. People have been doing that on the Sunday talk shows all day today. AM Joy had six people doing that all at once, including Joy.
I don't know. I saw some half-hearted approaches to that. I have to admit though that I have no real idea about the general media reaction. My glimpses showed me some diminishment.
(Just as an example I heard some person refusing to call it "riot" and wanting to call it "civil unrest", for sure that sounds more noble. I don't like that message.)
Also, I saw on these boards a meme with Kaepernick saying something like "what do you mean, my peaceful approach didn't fit you either". Another compared looting to republican tax cuts or to the Boston tea party. Another read "Burning down a city won't bring back Floyd" and the answer " bombing middle east won't undo 9/11". I see a lot of that logic, and I see that as a defense of events and deeds that should not get that kind of defense. Similar to comments like "these things have to be put in context, it might be a necessity to desperately fight the system..." or that the media sensationalizes the violence - things I can not get behind as a reaction and that I do see as excusing.
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
NSFW...bad language.
A friend sent me a clip they saw on r/pittsburgh of the kid that started destroying the cop car, he apparently left immediately after he was done. I saw the recorder of the video livestreaming this but not sure what their @ is. pic.twitter.com/bkKHKX1GRp
— oh worm? (@peachdekuu) May 30, 2020
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
The more I read and see the more I wish we had a President who had any empathy, or an ability to speak, or really any leadership ability other than trying to sound tough.
His words are as meaningless and his actions are missing.
This week is the culmination of three and half years of poor leadership from a "man" who thrives on chaos and divesiveness.
That people still support that is beyond the pale.
None of that justifies the damage done...it simply points to the "man" who through gas on the fire and doesn't know how to use a firehose.
RE: Bad Boys II - bfine32 - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 08:45 PM)GMDino Wrote: For the charge I can see it. I personally still feel he should have been in custody, maybe even for his own safety. I'm assuming it wouldn't be the first time someone was arrested and held without a charge for a day or so.
Just so we're clear...you advocate someone being arrested and held a day or so without a charge?
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 09:27 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Just so we're clear...you advocate someone being arrested and held a day or so without a charge?
Is that what I said? Are you...checks notes...making shit up?
I said I'm sure it has happened. And for his own safety it might have been a better move...rather than having 30 cops protect his home.
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
This is how Chicago does it pic.twitter.com/a6n7cUMPW0
— Bike Lane Uprising (@bikelaneuprise) May 30, 2020
RE: Bad Boys II - bfine32 - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 09:30 PM)GMDino Wrote: Is that what I said? Are you...checks notes...making shit up?
I said I'm sure it has happened. And for his own safety it might have been a better move...rather than having 30 cops protect his home.
I made nothing up. I asked a simple question for clarity. So is it yes or no?
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 09:36 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I made nothing up. I asked a simple question for clarity. So is it yes or no?
I assume you can read English. I did not "advocate" for anything. Try again. Or go away again.
RE: Bad Boys II - bfine32 - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 09:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: I assume you can read English. I did not "advocate" for anything. Try again. Or go away again.
When I asked the question I knew I wouldn't get a yes or no. But I'll try again:
Do you "advocate, endorse, support, subscribe to, agree with, condone,..." someone being arrested while waiting what they are charged with?
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 09:49 PM)bfine32 Wrote: When I asked the question I knew I wouldn't get a yes or no. But I'll try again:
Do you "advocate, endorse, support, subscribe to, agree with, condone,..." someone being arrested while waiting what they are charged with?
(05-30-2020, 09:40 PM)GMDino Wrote: I assume you can read English. I did not "advocate" for anything. Try again. Or go away again.
I apologize for assuming you could read English.
Stop wasting bandwidth with your dumb games.
RE: Bad Boys II - bfine32 - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 02:18 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Oooohhh, I did miss the childish insults. How you get away with them and still play the victim is impressive. I will give you that.
Knowing full well I'll get a 3-4 month ban for "questioning moderation" There's only 2 ways he gets "away with it". He's one of them or he has compromising photos.
This forum used to be (admittedly it's been since NOV 16) a place we could discuss things of substance, disagree with other's views and not attack personally. Sadly we have lost quality posters such as yourself and what this forum brings.
RE: Bad Boys II - GMDino - 05-30-2020
Six! Learn how to embed!
So that will disappear but it was a great speech. I thought I shared here too but maybe I just retweeted it.
RE: Bad Boys II - bfine32 - 05-30-2020
(05-30-2020, 09:54 PM)GMDino Wrote:
I apologize for assuming you could read English.
Stop wasting bandwidth with your dumb games.
So that's a NO. You don't advocate folks being detained while the departments figure out the charge? Seemed like you did in this instance. Must just be my inability to read English.