(09-20-2018, 01:00 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, sorry, cry wold doesn't fit. My bad.

That was MB decision and nobody else's. As stated many times over, MB is not a great (or probably even good) owner. It's nothing new. Marv has actually made MB look good. Check winning % before marv and with Marv. It's doubled. But it's not good enough for us fans and a lot of players. Guess what? That's his decision and way he wants to do it. And guess what else? he has every right to do it because he owns the team. I've come to accept that's the way it is. 

I don't blame Carson for wanting out. I actually don't even have any ill feelings toward him like most do. I blame Carson for knowing exactly what he was getting into and trying to play good cop and change a zebras stripes. You're usually going to be disappointed with that.

(09-20-2018, 03:00 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Fair points. But I don't believe for one second Carson knew what he was signing up for at the time he signed that extension (December 2005).

Call it naivety, call it being hopeful, call it delusional thinking that Mike Brown knew how/would do what it takes to build a perennial super bowl franchise, call it whatever you want. But there is no way Carson would have signed that extension if he truly knew what a selfish, cheap prick Mike Brown is. 

Back then we all thought the franchise had turned a corner and that there were inevitable great times ahead. Well, we were obviously wrong. And so was Carson. After that Press Conference I nearly threw in the towel on that nitwits franchise (but I have a sickness: I love this team too much). Carson left after years of essentially being lied to (yes, I still consider empty promises from a moronic owner lies). You can't really say Carson should have known better when the team did nothing but improve his first three years with the Bengals. 

(09-20-2018, 03:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Could you imagine taking a time machine back to the 2005 regular season and telling Bengals fans that you are from the year 2018 and the Bengals still hadn't won a single playoff game?  They'd probably assume the team plane tragically crashed, or something.

(09-20-2018, 03:08 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: And that Marvin Lewis would still be head coach?? Man, I would have never believed it. I was 15/16 years old in 2005, and my naive love for the Bengals was at an all-time high. I likely would have had a mini-breakdown if I heard the future.

The best laid plans...

(09-20-2018, 03:00 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Fair points. But I don't believe for one second Carson knew what he was signing up for at the time he signed that extension (December 2005).

Call it naivety, call it being hopeful, call it delusional thinking that Mike Brown knew how/would do what it takes to build a perennial super bowl franchise, call it whatever you want. But there is no way Carson would have signed that extension if he truly knew what a selfish, cheap prick Mike Brown is. 

Back then we all thought the franchise had turned a corner and that there were inevitable great times ahead. Well, we were obviously wrong. And so was Carson. After that Press Conference I nearly threw in the towel on that nitwits franchise (but I have a sickness: I love this team too much). Carson left after years of essentially being lied to (yes, I still consider empty promises from a moronic owner lies). You can't really say Carson should have known better when the team did nothing but improve his first three years with the Bengals. 

(09-20-2018, 03:00 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Fair points. But I don't believe for one second Carson knew what he was signing up for at the time he signed that extension (December 2005).

Call it naivety, call it being hopeful, call it delusional thinking that Mike Brown knew how/would do what it takes to build a perennial super bowl franchise, call it whatever you want. But there is no way Carson would have signed that extension if he truly knew what a selfish, cheap prick Mike Brown is. 

Back then we all thought the franchise had turned a corner and that there were inevitable great times ahead. Well, we were obviously wrong. And so was Carson. After that Press Conference I nearly threw in the towel on that nitwits franchise (but I have a sickness: I love this team too much). Carson left after years of essentially being lied to (yes, I still consider empty promises from a moronic owner lies). You can't really say Carson should have known better when the team did nothing but improve his first three years with the Bengals. 

(09-20-2018, 03:29 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: And he was soooooooooo great when he left.

(09-20-2018, 02:50 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Hmm, it would have been interesting if Carson played out his rookie contract here and then stated the Bengals weren't trying to win, so he would elected to go the FA route.  Unless your are suggesting he should have pulled a John Elway or Eli Manning and refused to even play for the Bengals as soon as they drafted him.  The Bengals hadn't had a winning season in the decade plus since MB took over by the time Carson was drafted, and MB had clearly established himself as a lousy GM with no intention of holding himself accountable.  Maybe Carson and Marvin Lewis were idiots for even accepting jobs with the Bengals.  Ouch.

Either way, it would have been pretty newsworthy. 

EDIT:  I can actually see an alternate reality where Carson refused to play for the Bengals as soon as they drafted him and the Chicago Bears sent us Rex Grossman and a handful of picks for him.

(09-20-2018, 03:00 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Fair points. But I don't believe for one second Carson knew what he was signing up for at the time he signed that extension (December 2005).

Call it naivety, call it being hopeful, call it delusional thinking that Mike Brown knew how/would do what it takes to build a perennial super bowl franchise, call it whatever you want. But there is no way Carson would have signed that extension if he truly knew what a selfish, cheap prick Mike Brown is. 

Back then we all thought the franchise had turned a corner and that there were inevitable great times ahead. Well, we were obviously wrong. And so was Carson. After that Press Conference I nearly threw in the towel on that nitwits franchise (but I have a sickness: I love this team too much). Carson left after years of essentially being lied to (yes, I still consider empty promises from a moronic owner lies). You can't really say Carson should have known better when the team did nothing but improve his first three years with the Bengals. 

(09-20-2018, 03:54 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Nah, check some of Palmers quotes. Something along the lines of "wanting to change the culture and start winning". Something like that. So he KNEW that MB led Bengals were lousy for a extended period of time. And I am sure he knew some other details about his "cheapness" as well (or arrogance, whatever you want to call it). 

The bolded is how I would of handled it as well. To even bring that up to an NFL owner is just plain silly and says it all IMO

(09-20-2018, 04:25 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: How could he not tho? Why would he even bring it up when talking about an extension?

(09-20-2018, 03:29 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: And he was soooooooooo great when he left.

(09-20-2018, 06:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: He was a top 3 QB in AZ in 2015 and he led the NFL in a number of passing categories while winning 13 games.  You don't have to like the guy, but he was a pretty good QB and it's quite telling that the Bengals couldn't get a single playoff win with him at the helm (much like they have yet to get one with a pretty good QB in Dalton at the helm).

Again, this just seems like one of those things where people are more interested in their feelings than the actual reality of a situation.

(09-20-2018, 03:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Could you imagine taking a time machine back to the 2005 regular season and telling Bengals fans that you are from the year 2018 and the Bengals still hadn't won a single playoff game?  They'd probably assume the team plane tragically crashed, or something.

(09-19-2018, 09:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: People who call themselves "realist" don't know what the term means.

"Realists" in Philly said the Eagles could not win a Super Bowl last year.  Their opinion had nothing to do with reality.

You are entitled to be a "negative" fan if you want.  Just don't try to claim you are a "realist".

(09-20-2018, 12:50 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, you know what I meant lol. My bad. He could of easily gave them that bucket of cold-water by not signing the contract. He knew full well the history of the team with MB. You don't think if he would of said "**** you" when negotiating they wouldn't of got the message across? 

Bengals may be a team that isn't 100% serious about winning, but they are not chop liver that isn't shit, either. There's has to be some sort of respect, or again, why did he sign that contract? Same with the Enron guy. If he knew the CEO was a *******, why did he go work for him? 

(09-20-2018, 01:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Teams bail on contracts when something changes.

Nothing changed from the time Carson signed his contract until the time he decided to quit.

(09-20-2018, 10:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The answer to both these posts is the same. Carson said he expected change. IIRC, he even said that Mikey said he'd work on things. It didn't happen. 

(09-20-2018, 11:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Indeed,

Carson got fed up with MB's lip service. Mikey had gotten away with it so long he figured it would work again....it didn't.

Just like the narrative after ML signed a new contract after 2010 "oh MB is stepping back, Katie, Marvin and Duke are running it" BS !

Has he now finally taken a step back ???

(09-20-2018, 11:48 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Did they go around saying this player wasn't committed to winning, needs to get a better agent and better structure to their careers? It's fine he wanted out. But to cry wolf because they did not do what they've never done is dumb. How about he does his job and let the others do theirs. Or not. But don't commit if they are not. 

(09-20-2018, 11:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Indeed,

Carson got fed up with MB's lip service. Mikey had gotten away with it so long he figured it would work again....it didn't.

Just like the narrative after ML signed a new contract after 2010 "oh MB is stepping back, Katie, Marvin and Duke are running it" BS !

Has he now finally taken a step back ???