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+--- Thread: This defense is a major concern... (/Thread-This-defense-is-a-major-concern)
RE: This defense is a major concern... - fredtoast - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 12:18 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I don't think Merv is the D guru a lot of people think he is. His players he had at Baltimore would have made any coach look like a guru. In his entire time here all the defenses have looked the same, soft. Only 1 had the sack to play something different, he left and we went back to being afraid of covering anyone.
Sorry, but this is completely false.
The four years Guenther was our DC we were NUMBER ONE IN THE LEAGUE in interceptions and opponents passer rating.
I have seen people make stuff up around here, but nothing as comical as this.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - Tlawsonmariat82 - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 03:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry, but this is completely false.I agree fred Zimmer never got blame for anything on these boards especially his anemic gameplans in the playoffs,his defenses allowed a whopping total of 6.2 ypc in our playoff games he coordnated..overall I think paulie g did a good job his two minute defense was just his Achilles heel same problems persist with this staff...
The four years Guenther was our DC we were NUMBER ONE IN THE LEAGUE in interceptions and opponents passer rating.
I have seen people make stuff up around here, but nothing as comical as this.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - Wyche'sWarrior - 10-03-2018
Funny how much difference a year makes.....this time last year, everyone was gnashing teeth over the offense, but I digress.
Remember folks, the d struggled on 3rd down last season, without a coaching change. Maybe they're just not as good as we think they are.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - sandwedge - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 03:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Sorry, but this is completely false.
The four years Guenther was our DC we were NUMBER ONE IN THE LEAGUE in interceptions and opponents passer rating.
I have seen people make stuff up around here, but nothing as comical as this.
So you tell me then, why have teams been able to pass on us or why we really haven't been able to get off the field on 3rd downs?
RE: This defense is a major concern... - BengalsRocker - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 03:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am lost here.
How does making him play off the ball make him play poorly? If he has the skills to be a good press corner then it would not effect him at all to play off the ball.
WJ III is a good physical CB.
His strengths are jamming and tight coverage.
Why would anyone want him to play off from the WR is the question?
It's trying to squeeze the player into the scheme instead of working from personnel's strengths.
Now granted DreK is technically our #1 CB perhaps this is why.
Dre gets real handsy when playing tight coverage.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - fredtoast - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 05:13 PM)sandwedge Wrote: So you tell me then, why have teams been able to pass on us or why we really haven't been able to get off the field on 3rd downs?
I don't know for sure. Mainly poor coverage skills by our LBs.
But I do know it is absurd to try and claim it is based on the same scheme we were running when we were the BEST pass defense in the entire league.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - impactplaya - 10-03-2018
if you allow offenses to get 4 5 yards on 1st down then it opens up the whole playbook. now it 2nd and 5.anything can be called by the offense.
what kills the Bengals is that hard sell off tackle then the qb rolls the opposite way. lbers and de have committed now you got no one in the flat to cover the target.
its not complicated. limit the yards on 1st down to 2 or less. get.to 3rd down where offense has to throw.
hate to say but losing Reggie Nelson and Pac Man has hurt this defense. both were very smart abd could read qbs.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - fredtoast - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 05:31 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: WJ III is a good physical CB.
His strengths are jamming and tight coverage.
Why would anyone want him to play off from the WR is the question?
It's trying to squeeze the player into the scheme instead of working from personnel's strengths.
Now granted DreK is technically our #1 CB perhaps this is why.
Dre gets real handsy when playing tight coverage.
So what skill is WJ3 lacking that good "off coverage" CBs possess?
Wasn't he playing a very similar scheme last year?
RE: This defense is a major concern... - BengalsRocker - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 05:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So what skill is WJ3 lacking that good "off coverage" CBs possess?
Wasn't he playing a very similar scheme last year?
I don't believe he's a speedy reaction type CB.
The kind of coverage that is being used requires a ball hawking speed guy.
I could be wrong be he doesn't seem like he possess the skills to jump routes.
DreK on the other hand does.
Except he can't catch which is kind of necessary if going for picks.
He definitely has closing speed.
Not so sure about reactionary quickness.
Lastly the D line is not getting a consistent enough pass rush to make it successful even if the corners specialty was playing off then WRs.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - yang - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 05:51 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: I don't believe he's a speedy reaction type CB.
The kind of coverage that is being used requires a ball hawking speed guy.
I could be wrong be he doesn't seem like he possess the skills to jump routes.
DreK on the other hand does.
Except he can't catch which is kind of necessary if going for picks.
He definitely has closing speed.
Not so sure about reactionary quickness.
Lastly the D line is not getting a consistent enough pass rush to make it successful even if the corners specialty was playing off then WRs.
wrong. WJIII took Aaron Rodgers to the house with speedy reactionary. It is not reaction time, it is because of a lack of physicalness. As an example, he moved to the slot where they were putting Sanu who beat him a couple plays. They are running inside slants. Teams detect a weakness and exploit it. It is technique and something he can fix, but until they they will go after him.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - BengalsRocker - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 07:17 PM)yang Wrote: wrong. WJIII took Aaron Rodgers to the house with speedy reactionary. It is not reaction time, it is because of a lack of physicalness. As an example, he moved to the slot where they were putting Sanu who beat him a couple plays. They are running inside slants. Teams detect a weakness and exploit it. It is technique and something he can fix, but until they they will go after him.
Those are two different things.
He is physical.
That's why he plays well close to the WRs on the outside.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - Millhouse - 10-03-2018
the defense is:
- 32nd on 3rd downs (57.4% conversions allowed, Falcons are 31st at 50.9%) (also most 3rd down attempts against)
- 28th pass yds/game
- 22nd rush yds/game
- 23rd points against/game
- 15th in drive % ending with a turnover (11.1%) ...(Dolphins are 2nd with a 21.3%)
All I know it's is good thing the offense has turned it around, otherwise probably would be 1-3 or 0-4 right now.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/opp.htm#all_team_stats
RE: This defense is a major concern... - XsandOs - 10-03-2018
(10-02-2018, 07:08 PM)Tlawsonmariat82 Wrote: I know some on the boards will feel as though this is a little premature, but it's good reason for my concern.I truly don't feel like Austin has a clue on how to play sound defense in the nfl..
This defense from a scheme standpoint has no aggression, no plan of attack and absolutely no creativity at all..I haven't seen seen blitz package that fooled an offense in 4 weeks of football..
We've come out the locker room on our heels every game,the coverages are loose and for the most part very vanilla,you don't have to take risks to create the allusion of pressure..
Watching this defense it's like they don't have a plan at all,no run fits,no coverage integrity,and absolutely no physicality from our cornerbacks on receivers off the Los we need this fixed fast....
Let's see ...... this D won the game in Indy, won the Ravens game and held the Falcons on their last drive to a FG.
Did you see the Lawson sack on that last drive that helped stop them in our red zone? Nothing vanilla about having him rush the passer from the interior.
Ryan is awfully tough to stop in the dome. That's why they call him Indoor Matty.
This is a new scheme and our best second line defender has been out. Still they have bent but not broken in three games.
Give it time. Let them gel and we will see.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - rfaulk34 - 10-03-2018
When Vontaze is in game shape and he and Brown have a couple games under their belts, you're going to see a different defense and then a lot of you are going to look pretty silly.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - Socal Bengals fan - 10-03-2018
The scheme sucks. Lb can’t cover anyone The front 4 are playing better but back 7 stink.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - J24 - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 05:35 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know for sure. Mainly poor coverage skills by our LBs.
But I do know it is absurd to try and claim it is based on the same scheme we were running when we were the BEST pass defense in the entire league.
Yep poor LB play is the main issue right now; that and communication.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - J24 - 10-03-2018
(10-03-2018, 02:21 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: How are we 14th in the league in QBs pressure rate, with this line?
https://buffalonews.com/2018/10/03/bills-struggle-pressuring-rodgers-still-in-top-10-in-defensive-pressure-rate/
According to this we're top 5 in pressures though tied with Buffalo; also we don't blitz has often so maybe that is hurting us some as well.
RE: This defense is a major concern... - muskiesfan - 10-03-2018
The issue is much bigger than just the LBs. Yes, Burfict will make a difference. For how many games? Hopefully 12. Hopefully 12 next year too. Of course with his history the suspension will probably be longer next year.
I believe Burfict and Brown on the field together will improve the LB play but there are a lot more issues than that. Don't get me wrong, I'd love Vontaze to come back and all the sudden we're stopping the run, playing better against the pass, getting better pressure, and only allowing 14 points a game or less, but I'm not sure he can make that big of a difference with or without the cape.