+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Cincinnati Bengals / NFL (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Cincinnati-Bengals-NFL)
+--- Forum: Draft Central (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Draft-Central)
+--- Thread: Fanspeak ultimate gm. (/Thread-Fanspeak-ultimate-gm)
Pages:
1
2
Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Jpoore - 02-17-2019
Resign
Darqueze Dennard resign 3 year 7 million per 40 percent guaranteed
Tyler Eifert resign 2 year 7 million per 20 percent guaranteed
Trey hopkins resign 2 years 2 million per 35 percent guaranteed
C.j. Uzomah resign 3 years 3.5 million per 35 percent guaranteed
Preston Brown resign 1 year 4 million 35 percent guaranteed
Free agents
Kwon Alexander lb 5 years 8.5 per 40 percent guaranteed
C.j Mosley lb 4 years 11.5 per 50 percent guaranteed
Jordan Hicks lb 2 year 7 per 60 percent guaranteed
Draft trade down to 25 for a second round pick.
1. Dalton risner ot
2. Dk metcalf wr(Simmons and Jones went the 2 picks before me unfortunately as I absolutely love Jones and I couldn't resist. Julio Jones clone).
2. Charles omenihu edge
3. Chris Lindstrom guard
4. Benny Snell rb
5. Mitch Hyatt ot
6. Tyree Jackson qb of the future
6. Lukas Dennis safety
6. Xavier Crawford CB
6. Martez Ivey guard
6. Trey pipkins ot
7. Armani Watts Dt.
Sorry for the length but oh my God the receiving dline and linebacker corp. Still leaves 16 million in cap space for Boyd extension/rollover
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - psychdoctor - 02-18-2019
(02-17-2019, 08:17 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Resign
Darqueze Dennard resign 3 year 7 million per 40 percent guaranteed
Tyler Eifert resign 2 year 7 million per 20 percent guaranteed
Trey hopkins resign 2 years 2 million per 35 percent guaranteed
C.j. Uzomah resign 3 years 3.5 million per 35 percent guaranteed
Preston Brown resign 1 year 4 million 35 percent guaranteed
Free agents
Kwon Alexander lb 5 years 8.5 per 40 percent guaranteed
C.j Mosley lb 4 years 11.5 per 50 percent guaranteed
Jordan Hicks lb 2 year 7 per 60 percent guaranteed
Draft trade down to 25 for a second round pick.
1. Dalton risner ot
2. Dk metcalf wr(Simmons and Jones went the 2 picks before me unfortunately as I absolutely love Jones and I couldn't resist. Julio Jones clone).
2. Charles omenihu edge
3. Chris Lindstrom guard
4. Benny Snell rb
5. Mitch Hyatt ot
6. Tyree Jackson qb of the future
6. Lukas Dennis safety
6. Xavier Crawford CB
6. Martez Ivey guard
6. Trey pipkins ot
7. Armani Watts Dt.
Sorry for the length but oh my God the receiving dline and linebacker corp. Still leaves 16 million in cap space for Boyd extension/rollover
I really like Risner.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Au165 - 02-18-2019
We have 43 Million in cap next year after allocating for draft pool and dead money....you have us giving out about 50.6 million. Yea, that's not happening and it really shouldn't either. I'm all for spending but that is pretty reckless spending.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - ochocincos - 02-18-2019
(02-17-2019, 08:17 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Resign
Darqueze Dennard resign 3 year 7 million per 40 percent guaranteed
Tyler Eifert resign 2 year 7 million per 20 percent guaranteed
Trey hopkins resign 2 years 2 million per 35 percent guaranteed
C.j. Uzomah resign 3 years 3.5 million per 35 percent guaranteed
Preston Brown resign 1 year 4 million 35 percent guaranteed
Free agents
Kwon Alexander lb 5 years 8.5 per 40 percent guaranteed
C.j Mosley lb 4 years 11.5 per 50 percent guaranteed
Jordan Hicks lb 2 year 7 per 60 percent guaranteed
Draft trade down to 25 for a second round pick.
1. Dalton risner ot
2. Dk metcalf wr(Simmons and Jones went the 2 picks before me unfortunately as I absolutely love Jones and I couldn't resist. Julio Jones clone).
2. Charles omenihu edge
3. Chris Lindstrom guard
4. Benny Snell rb
5. Mitch Hyatt ot
6. Tyree Jackson qb of the future
6. Lukas Dennis safety
6. Xavier Crawford CB
6. Martez Ivey guard
6. Trey pipkins ot
7. Armani Watts Dt.
Sorry for the length but oh my God the receiving dline and linebacker corp. Still leaves 16 million in cap space for Boyd extension/rollover
The money doesn't add up to allow this to happen.
Bengals cap space for 2019 = $50.4 mill
Re-signing listed Bengals FA's = $23.5 mill ($26.9 mill)
Alexander, Mosley, and Hicks combined = $27 mill (-$0.1 mill)
The Bengals will need to reserve around $8 mill for draft picks, another $2-5 mill for injuries (every team does this), and they also will likely reserve a decent amount for extensions (Boyd, Boling, Green to name the big 3).
Realistically, you're probably looking at $25-30 mill to spend on all FAs, both internal and external.
Even if they cut Burfict, that only saves about $7 mill for 2019 and $9 mill for 2020.
EDIT - Remove Eifert and Brown from your list to save $11 mill and also cut Burfict to save $7 mill and you get $18 mill extra to spend, which would be a good amount for your listed external FAs, draft picks, injury reservation, and some planned extensions.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Jpoore - 02-18-2019
(02-18-2019, 10:48 AM)Au165 Wrote: We have 43 Million in cap next year after allocating for draft pool and dead money....you have us giving out about 50.6 million. Yea, that's not happening and it really shouldn't either. I'm all for spending but that is pretty reckless spending.
After all this this leaves about 16 million left in cap space.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Jpoore - 02-18-2019
(02-18-2019, 05:25 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The money doesn't add up to allow this to happen.
Bengals cap space for 2019 = $50.4 mill
Re-signing listed Bengals FA's = $23.5 mill ($26.9 mill)
Alexander, Mosley, and Hicks combined = $27 mill (-$0.1 mill)
The Bengals will need to reserve around $8 mill for draft picks, another $2-5 mill for injuries (every team does this), and they also will likely reserve a decent amount for extensions (Boyd, Boling, Green to name the big 3).
Realistically, you're probably looking at $25-30 mill to spend on all FAs, both internal and external.
Even if they cut Burfict, that only saves about $7 mill for 2019 and $9 mill for 2020.
EDIT - Remove Eifert and Brown from your list to save $11 mill and also cut Burfict to save $7 mill and you get $18 mill extra to spend, which would be a good amount for your listed external FAs, draft picks, injury reservation, and some planned extensions.
I still had. 16 million left in the cap after this.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Au165 - 02-18-2019
(02-18-2019, 06:46 PM)Jpoore Wrote: After all this this leaves about 16 million left in cap space.
It doesn’t. Spotrac has us at 43 million next year with the projected rookie cap taken into account. That’s assuming none of your deals aren’t front loaded which based in some of the guaranteed they’d have to be to get people to sign.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Jpoore - 02-19-2019
(02-18-2019, 07:24 PM)Au165 Wrote: It doesn’t. Spotrac has us at 43 million next year with the projected rookie cap taken into account. That’s assuming none of your deals aren’t front loaded which based in some of the guaranteed they’d have to be to get people to sign.In this scenario, Mosley cap hit was 7.7 hicks 5.1 Alexander 5.7 dennard 5.2, brown 3.0, etc etc.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Au165 - 02-19-2019
(02-19-2019, 01:30 AM)Jpoore Wrote: In this scenario, Mosley cap hit was 7.7 hicks 5.1 Alexander 5.7 dennard 5.2, brown 3.0, etc etc.
Couple things with this. The Bengals don't tend to do heavily back loaded contracts, mainly because they keep guys through the life of their contracts and the escalation on the back end makes them cap prohibitive. The other main thing here is that top flight talent don' take heavily back loaded contracts unless they are heavily guaranteed throughout the life of the contract, Mosley isn't taking a back loaded deal but someone like Alexander or Dennard may. Some guys will take what is referred to as a "hump" deal which means the meat of the contract is in the middle versus front or back, essentially putting all the value during the prime years of the contract.
Putting that all aside by doing everyone on a back loaded deal you essentially screw your self in year two and beyond because the accelerated salary increase of year two causes a huge spike in the cap figure. Mosley for example, if he only made 7.7 year 1 would need to make 14 in year two to catch up on his deal. That escalation across the board would cause huge cap issues especially when you consider the Boyd and AJ resigns coming.
Realistically, I think there are two ways you make this work. You'd have to lose Alexander and Eiffert which I don't think either are huge losses, or you'd need to move Dalton but the issue there would then be your 1st went towards a QB and not a lineman. Even with all this you are working on very thin margins of error in terms of cap flexability.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - ochocincos - 02-19-2019
(02-18-2019, 06:47 PM)Jpoore Wrote: I still had. 16 million left in the cap after this.
Care to explain how? I laid out the math for you, so I'm not sure how you would have had 16 mill left in your scenario whereas I had -0.1 mill after FA.
EDIT - Just saw your posts after you replied to me. You didn't explain anything about the contract structure in OP, so it's impossible to NOT think you went over cap in your scenario. Also, as Au165 said, those cap numbers you laid out aren't realistic. The Bengals are more likely to front-load, not back-load. They want to make sure they can dump a player in the later contract years in case that player doesn't pan out.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - JungleRock85 - 02-19-2019
Honestly if we could sign CJ Mosley, Kwon Alexander, OR Jordan Hicks that would be amazing. Any of the 3 are an upgrade for this team and would be welcome additions. Sign 1 of those guys and I would be happy. Add Jared Cook at Tight End and go draft a Right Tackle and still look to upgrade Linebacker and Tight End in the draft as well. A couple outside FA signings could really open up the draft but I will believe it when I see it with this team.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - ochocincos - 02-19-2019
(02-19-2019, 01:30 AM)Jpoore Wrote: In this scenario, Mosley cap hit was 7.7 hicks 5.1 Alexander 5.7 dennard 5.2, brown 3.0, etc etc.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but since the contract is a 1-year deal, the whole $4 mill would have to count toward the cap, not just 3.0, correct?
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Au165 - 02-19-2019
(02-19-2019, 11:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but since the contract is a 1-year deal, the whole $4 mill would have to count toward the cap, not just 3.0, correct?
Correct. Also, with Hicks deal being two year and only being 5.1 on year one he would balloon to 9 in year two.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - ochocincos - 02-19-2019
(02-19-2019, 11:18 AM)Au165 Wrote: Correct. Also, with Hicks deal being two year and only being 5.1 on year one he would balloon to 9 in year two.
By having such heavy back-loaded contracts, it would truly be an all-in in 2019 but really hamper the organization for multiple years after. Probably not the best idea with a brand new coaching staff who doesn't even have a DC hired yet.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Okeana - 02-19-2019
That free agency looks like something my 9 year old self would have written up lol super funny
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Hammerstripes - 02-20-2019
That free agency would be a waste of money.
Sign 3 linebackers? Whats the point in doing that when we only have 2 on the field 75-80% of the time?
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Okeana - 02-20-2019
(02-20-2019, 01:36 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: That free agency would be a waste of money.
Sign 3 linebackers? Whats the point in doing that when we only have 2 on the field 75-80% of the time?
not to mention we would have to pay the shit team tax on top free agents. meaning add 2 million a year over the market cost to even intrigue them to come here.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Jpoore - 02-23-2019
(02-19-2019, 11:09 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but since the contract is a 1-year deal, the whole $4 mill would have to count toward the cap, not just 3.0, correct?Not to my knowledge.
(02-19-2019, 11:49 AM)ochocincos Wrote: By having such heavy back-loaded contracts, it would truly be an all-in in 2019 but really hamper the organization for multiple years after. Probably not the best idea with a brand new coaching staff who doesn't even have a DC hired yet.I would say going all in on 2018 worked out pretty well for the Rams, how about you? Also the cap is expected to go up about 12 million or so next year.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - ochocincos - 02-25-2019
(02-23-2019, 02:08 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Not to my knowledge.
I would say going all in on 2018 worked out pretty well for the Rams, how about you? Also the cap is expected to go up about 12 million or so next year.
I have very high confidence that is the case with the cap for 1 year contract, actually.
Go look at Eifert's contract from last year. The cap hit totals his base salary plus all potential bonuses remaining.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/tyler-eifert-12301/
The reason it is this way is because you have to make sure that you block off the cap space if a player is able to reach those incentives by the conclusion of the season. If that player is unable, that becomes unused cap at the end of the year that could be rolled over to the next year if the owner chooses to do so.
As for the Rams, it did work out pretty well for them, but they also have had the luxury of their QB playing on a rookie deal and therefore roughly $10 mill less against the cap per year than what Dalton was counting, so they had more room to work with. Once Goff hits FA (and likely Whitworth and Sullivan retire) in a couple years, it will become much more difficult to field as elite of a team.
The Rams took a gamble, and it has paid off a good amount (although didn't result in a championship), but do you really think the Bengals ownership would do the same? I sure don't. They (seem to) care more about the long run than the short run, and therefore they will not (likely) get into a cap crunch for 2020 and beyond just for the sake of hoping to go from zero to hero in 2019.
RE: Fanspeak ultimate gm. - Au165 - 02-25-2019
(02-25-2019, 10:57 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I have very high confidence that is the case with the cap for 1 year contract, actually.
Go look at Eifert's contract from last year. The cap hit totals his base salary plus all potential bonuses remaining.
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/tyler-eifert-12301/
The reason it is this way is because you have to make sure that you block off the cap space if a player is able to reach those incentives by the conclusion of the season. If that player is unable, that becomes unused cap at the end of the year that could be rolled over to the next year if the owner chooses to do so.
As for the Rams, it did work out pretty well for them, but they also have had the luxury of their QB playing on a rookie deal and therefore roughly $10 mill less against the cap per year than what Dalton was counting, so they had more room to work with. Once Goff hits FA (and likely Whitworth and Sullivan retire) in a couple years, it will become much more difficult to field as elite of a team.
The Rams took a gamble, and it has paid off a good amount (although didn't result in a championship), but do you really think the Bengals ownership would do the same? I sure don't. They (seem to) care more about the long run than the short run, and therefore they will not (likely) get into a cap crunch for 2020 and beyond just for the sake of hoping to go from zero to hero in 2019.
You are correct the total value of the single year contract is recognized against the cap.