+- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com)
+-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums)
+--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0)
+---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive)
+---- Thread: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations (/Thread-Radiating-insecurity-affects-foreign-relations)
Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - Dill - 07-10-2019
Breaking news:
British Ambassador to the U.S. Resigns After Leaked Trump Criticism
https://www.thedailybeast.com/kim-darroch-british-ambassador-to-the-us-resigns-after-leaked-trump-criticism?source=articles&via=rss
Background: Ambassador Darroch, jealous of Trump's business success and butthurt over Hillary's loss, sent the British government a very negative assessment of his Team Trump's competence from the get go. Story did not break until three days ago.
British ambassador, now target of Trump’s ire, has D.C. wired
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/09/british-ambassador-donald-trump-1404601
. . . almost overnight, the ambassador risks going from bipartisan Washington convener to ostracized foreigner at Trump’s direction. The fallout reflects how quickly Trump can turn on a top ally’s envoy — and insist that Washington turn with him. It’s also another example of Trump’s willingness to shatter diplomatic norms with the United Kingdom, which claims a “special relationship” with the United States.
“It drags one of the most important U.S. relationships internationally through the mud at the very highest levels,” said Jeff Rathke, a former Foreign Service officer and Europe analyst who has served in multiple administrations. “Even if it is temporarily satisfying for President Trump in some way, it is bad for the relationship because it undermines confidence and trust.”
The irony, said one person close to the Trump administration who’s been to Darroch’s parties, is that “a lot of folks from the White House actually say the exact same things” about the internal dynamics there. “They were probably saying those things to him.”
The fracas started Sunday, when the Daily Mail published a story detailing the contents of secret cables that Darroch had sent to London offering his analysis and views on the Trump administration starting in 2017. According to the British news outlet, Darroch described internal divisions in the White House as “knife fights,” warned Trump could lead the U.S. to war with Iran and described the administration overall as “chaotic,” predicting it would not become “less dysfunctional; less unpredictable; less faction riven; less diplomatically clumsy and inept.”
Darroch wrote that Trump “radiates insecurity” and has “no filter.” But he also warned officials in London: “Do not write him off.”
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - CJD - 07-10-2019
Yea, I mean you can't really be an ambassador to a country when people know you feel that way about the country's leadership.
Obviously, I see the administration the same way he does, but for someone in his position, he should know not to let printed proof leak that he feels that way. It's bad for business.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - Dill - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 08:33 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea, I mean you can't really be an ambassador to a country when people know you feel that way about the country's leadership.
Obviously, I see the administration the same way he does, but for someone in his position, he should know not to let printed proof leak that he feels that way. It's bad for business.
Not Darroch's fault that classified communications were leaked--nor that Trump is incompetent. Darroch was just doing his job, providing a candid assessment of the Trump administration. Likely most ambassadors in DC have sent similar reports to their governments.
Hypothesis regarding the leakers' motives abound now.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/politics/us-britain-ambassador-memos-diplomacy/index.html
Different theories are being floated about the motivation of the leaker. Possibly, he or she was an official sympathetic to anti-European, pro-Trump factions in the Conservative Party who want Darroch gone to insert a new ambassador more ideologically in tune with Trump.
Perhaps someone from the next government wanted to send a sign to Trump that the days of traditional UK diplomats favorably disposed to the EU and the international establishment are numbered. In Tuesday's "The Sun" newspaper, Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt -- Darroch's boss and Johnson's last remaining rival in the leadership race -- said officials would consider whether a hostile foreign power keen to disrupt relations between the US and Britain was behind the leak.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - Belsnickel - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 08:33 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Yea, I mean you can't really be an ambassador to a country when people know you feel that way about the country's leadership.
Obviously, I see the administration the same way he does, but for someone in his position, he should know not to let printed proof leak that he feels that way. It's bad for business.
Well, to be fair, it's kind of the job of an ambassador like that to report the way he did to his government. The fact they got leaked from someone, likely within the foreign secretary's circle, is the issue. This is likely the result of the current infighting going on in their parliament. The ambassador did nothing wrong here.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - Belsnickel - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 08:39 AM)Dill Wrote: Darroch was just doing his job. Not his fault Trump is incompetent--or that classified communications were leaked.
Hypothesis regarding the leakers' motives abound now.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/09/politics/us-britain-ambassador-memos-diplomacy/index.html
Different theories are being floated about the motivation of the leaker. Possibly, he or she was an official sympathetic to anti-European, pro-Trump factions in the Conservative Party who want Darroch gone to insert a new ambassador more ideologically in tune with Trump.
Perhaps someone from the next government wanted to send a sign to Trump that the days of traditional UK diplomats favorably disposed to the EU and the international establishment are numbered. In Tuesday's "The Sun" newspaper, Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt -- Darroch's boss and Johnson's last remaining rival in the leadership race -- said officials would consider whether a hostile foreign power keen to disrupt relations between the US and Britain was behind the leak.
Hey, I hadn't even read anything on this and I came to the same conclusion. Good on me.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - CJD - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 08:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, to be fair, it's kind of the job of an ambassador like that to report the way he did to his government. The fact they got leaked from someone, likely within the foreign secretary's circle, is the issue. This is likely the result of the current infighting going on in their parliament. The ambassador did nothing wrong here.
That's fair. The ambassador did nothing wrong, but now that it's leaked, you can't really let him keep his job. The resignation was inevitable.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - Dill - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 08:42 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Hey, I hadn't even read anything on this and I came to the same conclusion. Good on me.
No way you could have predicted this, though.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1148559442885185536
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - Dill - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 08:51 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: That's fair. The ambassador did nothing wrong, but now that it's leaked, you can't really let him keep his job. The resignation was inevitable.
The real issue now is how this will affect communications and relations between the US and GB.
If Johnson and his Brexiteers come to power, that could mean a British government almost as dysfunctional and leak prone as ours, and equally open to foreign intervention.
The world (outside of China, Israel, NK, Russia and Saudi Arabia) no doubt hopes people in each Democracy have to step up to end this.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - GMDino - 07-10-2019
Well DJT isn't the kind of guy to take a personal slight to heart.
I'm sure he doesn't hold grudges.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - michaelsean - 07-10-2019
Yeah it seems the problem is the leaker. (How is "leaker" not a word?) I imagine stuff like this is reported all the time and not just about Trump.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - GMDino - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 09:18 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah it seems the problem is the leaker. (How is "leaker" not a word?) I imagine stuff like this is reported all the time and not just about Trump.
As an aside when I was doing a search for an old thread yesterday I came across the the discussion about the anonymous NY Post op-ed and got wondering if DJT every found out who he leaker was. Or any of the other times they were looking for who was leaking from the WH.
I'd venture to guess the vast majority never get caught.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - Dill - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 09:32 AM)GMDino Wrote: As an aside when I was doing a search for an old thread yesterday I came across the the discussion about the anonymous NY Post op-ed and got wondering if DJT every found out who he leaker was. Or any of the other times they were looking for who was leaking from the WH.
I'd venture to guess the vast majority never get caught.
(07-10-2019, 09:18 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah it seems the problem is the leaker. (How is "leaker" not a word?) I imagine stuff like this is reported all the time and not just about Trump.
This case is odd because diplomatic communiques are HIGHLY protected, of necessity. Especially sensitive evaluations of allies. They are much less easy to leak than internal WH communications flowing between dozens of staffers.
The volume of Trump WH leaks has long been read as a symptom of dysfunction, especially infighting--people with agendas at cross purposes trying to torpedo each other.
One of my concerns is that the government of our closest ally may also be succumbing to similar dysfunction. Boris Johnson will not fix that.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - CKwi88 - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 09:15 AM)GMDino Wrote: Well DJT isn't the kind of guy to take a personal slight to heart.
I'm sure he doesn't hold grudges.
Kim Jong Un hurled insults directly at him and ended up with an invitation to the White House.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - GMDino - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 11:12 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: Kim Jong Un hurled insults directly at him and ended up with an invitation to the White House.
But Kim sent a beautiful letter and the two men fell in love!
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - bfine32 - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 08:41 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: Well, to be fair, it's kind of the job of an ambassador like that to report the way he did to his government. The fact they got leaked from someone, likely within the foreign secretary's circle, is the issue. This is likely the result of the current infighting going on in their parliament. The ambassador did nothing wrong here.
I'd have to read the actually text of the message to discern if the Ambassador did anything wrong.
But the optics of it are terrible. Once it was released the Ambassador had 2 choices:
Resignation
persona non grata
Now Trump's reaction was beneath the role of POTUS and that's always been my biggest gripe with him. He lowers himself to places a sitting POTUS does not belong. But apparently it plays well with some.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 09:18 AM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah it seems the problem is the leaker. (How is "leaker" not a word?) I imagine stuff like this is reported all the time and not just about Trump.
Christopher Steele reported about the golden leaker(s) before the 2016 election.
RE: Radiating insecurity affects foreign relations - Dill - 07-10-2019
(07-10-2019, 03:20 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I'd have to read the actually text of the message to discern if the Ambassador did anything wrong.
But the optics of it are terrible. Once it was released the Ambassador had 2 choices:
Resignation
persona non grata
Now Trump's reaction was beneath the role of POTUS and that's always been my biggest gripe with him. He lowers himself to places a sitting POTUS does not belong. But apparently it plays well with some.
It plays well with his supporters.
Meanwhile, Hillary can run a child sex traffic ring and no one bats an eye.
Hard choice for voters.