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Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Printable Version +- Cincinnati Bengals Message Board / Forums - Home of Jungle Noise (http://thebengalsboard.com) +-- Forum: Off Topic Forums (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Off-Topic-Forums) +--- Forum: Politics & Religion 2.0 (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-Politics-Religion-2-0) +---- Forum: P & R Archive (http://thebengalsboard.com/Forum-P-R-Archive) +---- Thread: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country (/Thread-Trump-s-ethanol-waivers-are-sparking-rebellion-in-farm-country) |
Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - GMDino - 08-27-2019 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/08/27/donald-trump-ethanol-waivers-farm-country-lose-support-president-election-voters-farmers/2129161001/ Quote:Gripped with anger, some Iowa ethanol leaders say President Donald Trump should no longer count on their support in next year’s election, given his administration's action to cut demand for the U.S. renewable fuel. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - michaelsean - 08-27-2019 Not one argument in all of that about how ethanol is a better choice. Reading that, we should use ethanol because farmers want to sell more corn. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - GMDino - 08-27-2019 (08-27-2019, 09:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Not one argument in all of that about how ethanol is a better choice. Reading that, we should use ethanol because farmers want to sell more corn. That's okay. Trump is just going to give the farmers money for not selling the corn instead.
RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-27-2019 (08-27-2019, 10:08 PM)GMDino Wrote: That's okay. Trump is just going to give the farmers money for not selling the corn instead. Keep carrying China's water. They are depending on people like you to win this thing. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - GMDino - 08-27-2019 (08-27-2019, 10:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Keep carrying China's water. They are depending on people like you to win this thing. Or, you know, just understand that the tariffs are hurting the Americans more than China and it's a bad policy. You know, maybe that instead. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-27-2019 (08-27-2019, 11:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: Or, you know, just understand that the tariffs are hurting the Americans more than China and it's a bad policy. Maybe, in the short term. Seeing as how China is a communist autocratic regime with complete control over their media we obviously can't know that for sure. What we do know for sure is that we've fueled this regime's growth for decades and they rely on our continued laziness and shortsightedness to continue doing just that. They also rely on the weaknesses of a democratic system, e.g. being subject to the fickle whim of the voters, to prevail. As I previously said, you're exactly what China wants to see in an American. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - GMDino - 08-27-2019 (08-27-2019, 11:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Maybe, in the short term. Seeing as how China is a communist autocratic regime with complete control over their media we obviously can't know that for sure. What we do know for sure is that we've fueled this regime's growth for decades and they rely on our continued laziness and shortsightedness to continue doing just that. They also rely on the weaknesses of a democratic system, e.g. being subject to the fickle whim of the voters, to prevail. As I previously said, you're exactly what China wants to see in an American. It's kinda funny how if say I have a problem with another awful policy decision by Trump you see it as me supporting China. If Dill has an issue with what is actual anti-semitism you see it as he is supporting Muslims/Isis. It's almost like anyone who disagree with you you see as supporting the enemy. It's almost like the problem is you not liking people who disagree with you. Oh well. ![]() RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-28-2019 (08-27-2019, 11:21 PM)GMDino Wrote: It's kinda funny how if say I have a problem with another awful policy decision by Trump you see it as me supporting China. No, your criticism of the current China policy is exactly what China wants. That's you, I hope inadvertently, supporting China. Quote:If Dill has an issue with what is actual anti-semitism you see it as he is supporting Muslims/Isis. No, Dill's muslim bias is based on his obvious muslim bias. He mitigates muslim extremism while enhancing Israeli "atrocities" Quote:It's almost like anyone who disagree with you you see as supporting the enemy. Oddly, no. Just you and Dill. There was another, but enough said. Quote:It's almost like the problem is you not liking people who disagree with you. Well, I certainly don't like people who undermine the US in favor of China or who apologize for muslim extremism. I'd sadly assume neither of those would be controversial positions. Quote:Oh well. Oh well, indeed. Keep carrying Chairman (btw Chiarman!!!!! How sexist!!!! How is he not being called out on his horribly misogynistic title?!?!?!) Xi's water. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Benton - 08-28-2019 (08-27-2019, 11:07 PM)GMDino Wrote: Or, you know, just understand that the tariffs are hurting the Americans more than China and it's a bad policy. The trade war issues are complex and deal with things have to be faced eventually. From tax policies that promote companies going out of the country to nobody holding China accountable for outright IP theft and being lax on piracy to the tariff issue. Part of the problem with tariffs are also part of the problem resulting in our wage stagnation. We've got a handful of industries with lots of breaks and some with 2019 prices... while others are expected to stay low through price controls, subsidies or market pressure. If the price of a t-shirt, gallon of milk and your kids school supplies kept pace with the auto industry, electric companies and cell phones, your kid would be going to school naked, hungry and without anything to write on. But to keep cheap stuff coming, the US (and other countries) haven't really interfered with China's illegal practices, or with their flooding markets with cheap stuff. At some point, we've got to deal with them. I'm not really up enough on what the best way to do that is, but I'm glad we're doing something. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Au165 - 08-28-2019 I liked the line where Grassley was mad that the government wasn't following it's own regulations, but is heading the reelection push in Iowa on tax cuts and...wait for it....less regulations! RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Belsnickel - 08-28-2019 The biggest issue with this trade war is that Trump decided to do this unilaterally. There are other countries that have been looking for the US to lead them in an effort that is aimed at taking down China. Instead, they got a United States that attacked China and its allies in economic ways. Instead of working collaboratively against China, the Trump administration has alienated almost all of the traditional allies we have in these sorts of things, which means that we take the brunt of the punishment, we being the American people. Two economic behemoths in a trade war results in hefty blows to each other; two heavyweights in the ring. What should have happened would have been like a tag team match where we had at least five or six other partners in this helping to take China down. Trump removed the US from the leadership role in the international community, and then decided to go at it alone. It was a bad policy decision and one the farmers in the midwest are paying for. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - GMDino - 08-28-2019 (08-28-2019, 01:04 AM)Benton Wrote: The trade war issues are complex and deal with things have to be faced eventually. "something" in this case is bad for Americans. That doesn't mean I support Chiana dn want them to "win" this "easy to win trade war". It means that DJT made another bad policy decision and then doubled down when it didn't work. (08-28-2019, 08:26 AM)Belsnickel Wrote: The biggest issue with this trade war is that Trump decided to do this unilaterally. There are other countries that have been looking for the US to lead them in an effort that is aimed at taking down China. Instead, they got a United States that attacked China and its allies in economic ways. Instead of working collaboratively against China, the Trump administration has alienated almost all of the traditional allies we have in these sorts of things, which means that we take the brunt of the punishment, we being the American people. Exactly. But DJT know "more" about everything than everyone. And in some corners if you don't support his every decision you are with the enemy. Part of the polarization of this country comes from line of thinking too. As to the China problem: I agree that a group effort would have been better. But also having a leader that has the ability to stay on task and worry more about the goal than how he looks and who likes him. His sole concern is money. Period. He thinks the country is one of his businesses and all he cares about is making money...for him. Because he has done nothing about the deficit and nothing to cut spending. This is why so many of his ventures went into bankruptcy: He doesn't know how to MAKE money, he knows how to spend someone ELSE's money until there isn't any left. Having him, as you say, unilaterally making these trade moves is asinine. And again that doesn't mean I do not think China is taking advantage of our trade or that I want China to beat the US. It means I have a problem with Trump and his minions telling us we have to deal with the pain until he wins over this. As I've said before (crossing the streams here) we don't dare ask businesses of citizens to deal with the "pain" of going at climate change because it will cost money! LOL! But to the OP if Trump wants Socialism for the american farmer then good for him. That will be a good look going into the 2020 elections. ![]() RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Aquapod770 - 08-28-2019 (08-27-2019, 09:52 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Not one argument in all of that about how ethanol is a better choice. Reading that, we should use ethanol because farmers want to sell more corn. Because it's not. It's not good for most cars, and really only the cars made in the last 5 or so years have gotten better at handling it. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - CJD - 08-28-2019 (08-27-2019, 11:14 PM)Sociopathicsteelerfan Wrote: Maybe, in the short term. Seeing as how China is a communist autocratic regime with complete control over their media we obviously can't know that for sure. What we do know for sure is that we've fueled this regime's growth for decades and they rely on our continued laziness and shortsightedness to continue doing just that. They also rely on the weaknesses of a democratic system, e.g. being subject to the fickle whim of the voters, to prevail. As I previously said, you're exactly what China wants to see in an American. If we stay with this tariff war and eventually China cracks, what impact do you believe that will have on the American people's day to day life? When it comes to this tariff war, I am trying to see the forest for the trees in regards to the ultimate prize for winning, but I'm not sure exactly what that victory looks like. Will the cost of Chinese goods significantly decrease, relative to what they were before the tariff war? Will the cost of American goods made from Chinese materials significantly decrease, relative to pre-tariff war? Will our economy expand or otherwise prosper in a way not seen before the tariff war? Or is the ultimate goal to hurt China because they're communists and America hates communists? And do we, the people, benefit from this at all? The ultimate goal is not something that has been made clear to the American people and that's why I don't think it's a very popular trade war for Trump. All Americans see is the loss of jobs, the increased price of goods and the hardships put on people who made money selling to China, avenues which may be closed for good if China does succeed in setting up all their imports from other countries rather than America. After all, Trump has made a lot of remarks about how big our trade deficit is with China for a while now. Now, I'm not an economist, but if we have a trade deficit with China before this tariff war, that would mean to me that we need China's goods more than they need our goods, since we were purchasing/importing vastly more Chinese goods than they were purchasing American goods (the definition of a trade deficit). Trump has been painting America's relationship with China as a zero sum game for a long time now, but I'm not really sure that the evidence bares this out. All people who are against this tariff war see is a man who has proven over the course of his career that he does not make good financial decisions basically gambling with America's economy that China will blink before he does, using extraordinarily simple "tough guy" tactics while simultaneously throwing insults at the Federal Reserve leadership that he personally selected... Is there something you're seeing that those people aren't? RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Benton - 08-28-2019 (08-28-2019, 08:55 AM)GMDino Wrote: "something" in this case is bad for Americans. That doesn't mean I support Chiana dn want them to "win" this "easy to win trade war". It means that DJT made another bad policy decision and then doubled down when it didn't work. 'bad for americans' is too simple here. Our overall approach has been bad for four decades. There isn't going to be something that fixes the issues overnight without growing pains. For me, tariffs can be a tool to fix it and they're going to be "bad" for people in the short term, but they really only work if there's tax reform to go along with it that discourages employers from sending jobs overseas. Then those price increases in the short term get replaced by jobs in the long term. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - GMDino - 08-28-2019 (08-28-2019, 11:00 AM)Benton Wrote: 'bad for americans' is too simple here. No argument to the bold. But that can be said about a lot of things that need "fixed" in America. And it seems we only care about the ones that will make someone money...not you and me mind you. We' have to absorb the pain so someone else can get the pleasure at the end. To the rest you are creating a well thought out group of policies and actions...that's not what DJT did/does. He takes a hammer to everything whether it is needed or not. Which is why I said his policy was bad...because that's all he's done. Add on the socialistic support of the farmers and it's been a real "win" for him. For pointing that out I am now said to be "just what china wants". Apparently china wants people to have better methods of gong after them instead of ones that will hurt america even if it's just the short-term (one year? 5 years?) RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - jj22 - 08-28-2019 Honestly Farmers voted for this (Trump) and when we told them they were getting conned they chanted lock her up. I don't feel bad for them and don't think they deserve the bailouts they are getting. Votes matter. Trump screwed them like so many others he's conned over the decades, and to me they are getting what they deserve. They didn't need bailouts under Obama due to his policies. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Aquapod770 - 08-28-2019 (08-28-2019, 11:16 AM)jj22 Wrote: Honestly Farmers voted for this (Trump) and when we told them they were getting conned they chanted lock her up. I don't feel bad for them and don't think they deserve the bailouts they are getting. Votes matter. Trump screwed them like so many others he's conned over the decades, and to me they are getting what they deserve. You have no clue how farming works. ![]() Here is a pretty good read on farming subsidies and reform: https://www.cato.org/publications/tax-budget-bulletin/reforming-federal-farm-policies For the record, I am all for ending farming subsidies for "big farms" and I 100% opposed to Trumps stupid trade war. I just enjoy calling you out on your shit JJ. Not many people do on here for some reason, so I'll do it. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - Sociopathicsteelerfan - 08-28-2019 (08-28-2019, 11:00 AM)Benton Wrote: 'bad for americans' is too simple here. Now that you say it he'll actually respond somewhat logically. You and I have had this discussion before, and this will also address Jdawgs questions above. China has been a parasite on the US economy for decades. They steal billions of dollars in IP every year. They lure shortsighted US businesses there with their slave wages, causing immense damage to the average US worker. They artificially peg their currency to a favorable rate to the dollar. In short, they have lied, cheated and outright stolen from the US to fuel their growth. Reigning them in will not only be a huge boost to the US economy it will also slow their expansionist plans in Asia and Africa. RE: Trump's ethanol waivers are sparking rebellion in farm country - jj22 - 08-28-2019 (08-28-2019, 11:26 AM)Aquapod770 Wrote: Not many people do on here for some reason, so I'll do it. Most know the "moral of my stories" are always correct even if my approach pushes buttons. But I disagree with this overall. I have good spirited debates with all. I maintain, Farmers supported Trump and they should swallow the pill they asked for. |