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Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Fullrock - 09-22-2019
There are two teams in the NFL who have had the same starting QB for the longest time without a playoff win. The Lions Matt Stafford has been the starter since 2009. Andy Dalton has been the Bengals starter since 2011. What's telling is that the two are basically the same player. Dalton has a career 88.8 QB rating while Stafford's is 88.6. Their TD to INT ratio is nearly identical. Both have played with elite WR's in Calvin Johnson and AJ Green.
In a league where 3-5 years seems to be the max an organization will go with a starter who hasn't seen post season success, these two have managed to be the exception rather than the rule. Maybe it's no coincidence that both organizations also haven't won a playoff game in nearly 30 years.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Nately120 - 09-22-2019
Both teams are also owned by super old people who inherited the team.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - KillerGoose - 09-22-2019
I'd put Stafford above Dalton. For the majority of his career, Dalton has had the superior overall team and coaching staff.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Nicomo Cosca - 09-22-2019
(09-22-2019, 10:10 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I'd put Stafford above Dalton. For the majority of his career, Dalton has had the superior overall team and coaching staff.
Agreed. And I feel like Stafford doesn’t have as many “Bad Matt” games as our boy does.
At least Dalton doesn’t get paid so much though...
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Ravage - 09-22-2019
(09-22-2019, 10:07 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Both teams are also owned by super old people who inherited the team.
The majority of teams are owned by super old people who inherited the team, or just inherited the team with the super old part forthcoming.
The Cardinals, Bears, Bengals, Lions, Colts, Raiders, Texans, Chiefs, Chargers, Saints, Giants, Jets, Steelers, 49ers, Buccaneers & Titans all were inherited, with the Broncos & Seahawks up in the air at the moment but you can likely add them to the list. That's 18 of the 32 teams (including Seattle & Denver) that have been passed down following the demise of the principle owner. When Jerry Jones dies the list will grow to 19.
Point is, it isn't like having an old person who lucked into owning the team by winning the birth lottery is some oddity exclusive to only a handful of teams.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - J24 - 09-22-2019
Stafford is probably a top 5 talent at QB now he isn't a top 5 player but dude has Talent. Would take him over Dalton.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - THE PISTONS - 09-22-2019
(09-22-2019, 10:39 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Stafford is probably a top 5 talent at QB now he isn't a top 5 player but dude has Talent. Would take him over Dalton.
Agreed. Stafford has a better arm too.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Destro - 09-22-2019
Why does it even matter? Is there an open trade offer out for either of them?
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Fullrock - 09-23-2019
(09-22-2019, 11:19 PM)Destro Wrote: Why does it even matter? Is there an open trade offer out for either of them?
It matters because you have two organizations who haven't won a play off game in nearly 30 years hanging on to QB's WAY longer than any other organization would have. Statistically speaking, Dalton and Stafford are the same player (and actually Dalton has a slightly better TD to INT ratio). Neither has seen any post season success.
Is it a confidence that the two teams with the longest playoff win drought would be the two teams who have had the philosophy of hanging on to QB's who have proven themselves over 9 and 11 years to be nothing more than average? I don't think it's coincidence. I think it shows the mentality of two losing organizations.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Fullrock - 09-23-2019
(09-22-2019, 10:39 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Stafford is probably a top 5 talent at QB now he isn't a top 5 player but dude has Talent. Would take him over Dalton.
You can argue the tools all you want, but statistically they have been the same player.
Top 5 talent is a bit of a stretch.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - reuben.ahmed - 09-23-2019
Let's go a step further and ask, Dalton and Stafford the same person?
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Fullrock - 09-23-2019
(09-23-2019, 08:12 AM)reuben.ahmed Wrote: Let's go a step further and ask, Dalton and Stafford the same person?
Hmmmm...I see the resemblance lol
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - J24 - 09-23-2019
(09-23-2019, 08:02 AM)Fullrock Wrote: You can argue the tools all you want, but statistically they have been the same player.
Top 5 talent is a bit of a stretch.
It's fair to say his career has been a disappointment for his talent level.
I stand by my statement.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - bengalfan74 - 09-23-2019
The Lions started out as the Portsmouth, Ohio Spartans just up the river from Cincinnati. Is there something in the river water ?
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Millhouse - 09-23-2019
(09-23-2019, 07:56 AM)Fullrock Wrote: It matters because you have two organizations who haven't won a play off game in nearly 30 years hanging on to QB's WAY longer than any other organization would have. Statistically speaking, Dalton and Stafford are the same player (and actually Dalton has a slightly better TD to INT ratio). Neither has seen any post season success.
Is it a confidence that the two teams with the longest playoff win drought would be the two teams who have had the philosophy of hanging on to QB's who have proven themselves over 9 and 11 years to be nothing more than average? I don't think it's coincidence. I think it shows the mentality of two losing organizations.
Just a rhetorical question, but are both organizations lack of success due to their respective qb, or are the qbs' lack of success due to the organizations they are apart of.
There's no way of knowing outside of playing the theoretical game, like how would Stafford/Dalton have done or do on teams like the Chiefs, Rams, Saints, Pats, Pitt, etc.
Anyhoots I will say if the Bengals had a good oline with a healthy AJ, Boyd, and Ross, I would take Stafford myself though thats a bit offtopic.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Bengalfan4life27c - 09-23-2019
I think teams playing in domes get inflated offensive stats. Whose to say Ryan or Stafford would do better here? Analogy its like putting a good offensive baseball team on the Rockies.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - jason - 09-23-2019
(09-23-2019, 12:31 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The Lions started out as the Portsmouth, Ohio Spartans just up the river from Cincinnati. Is there something in the river water ?
P Town baby!!!
Don't know if they call it that, but they should.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - jason - 09-23-2019
(09-23-2019, 01:48 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I think teams playing in domes get inflated offensive stats. Whose to say Ryan or Stafford would do better here? Analogy its like putting a good offensive baseball team on the Rockies.
I think Matt Ryan is overrated... I said it.
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - Destro - 09-23-2019
And the Browns had changed QBs constantly and aside from the this off season craziness, has been the perennial laughing stock of the year. For every Andy Dalton, there are plenty of Akili Smith and David Klingler's. People can complain about Dalton all they want ( and not saying rightfully so ), but the fantasy that this team was just a QB away is just another delusional sports fan thing.
Takes more than a great QB with no O-Line, dropping and fumbling WR, no run game, defense that blows coverage and constantly gets gashed ( had one ok game ).
RE: Dalton and Stafford the same player? - BengalsRocker - 09-23-2019
(09-22-2019, 10:24 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Agreed. And I feel like Stafford doesn’t have as many “Bad Matt” games as our boy does.
At least Dalton doesn’t get paid so much though...
I think Stafford has a higher ceiling physically(when healthy)but is just as capable basement qualities mentally.
From the Lions games I have witnessed he makes some blunders and game blowing picks just as well Dalton fashioned.
I tend to agree that bad ownership is what usually sinks our two teams.
THAT is why they're hanging onto these QBs.
They know they can't get a decent FA to be QB so they stick with slightly above average ones.
I'm most certain that if Palmer didn't want out they would have clung onto him like he's Tom frickin' Brady.