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+--- Thread: Why not keep Andy as a backup? (/Thread-Why-not-keep-Andy-as-a-backup)
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 12:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You're right. Best to let him learn how to be a pro QB from Finley
Let me run another thought by you.
How about signing a veteran backup for five million or less? Crazy, way outside the box thinking, I know.
What parallel universe are we living in? This conversation is too crazy to even be having.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Luvnit2 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:05 PM)McC Wrote: I don't suppose Van Pelt will teach him much, being the OC for the Cleveland Browns.
So, to be a good NFL coach, one has to have been a star player in the league? This might come as a shock to Andy Reid, Bill Belichick and pretty much any successful coach in the league.
You were the one said Dalton could not teach Burrow anything based on your perceived talent level of AD. But others can?
You are losing it in this discussion, Deep breaths before posting.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Luvnit2 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:10 PM)McC Wrote: Let me run another thought by you.
How about signing a veteran backup for five million or less? Crazy, way outside the box thinking, I know.
What parallel universe are we living in? This conversation is too crazy to even be having.
So bring in 2 guys who have never run the offense with Burrow and someone who has no idea?
Sounds dumb to me when you have a QB on your roster that knows the offense and is capable to either win starting job or win games if Burrow gets hurt.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Bengalstripes9 - 04-26-2020
I think a lot of you guys make some great points about the benefits of keeping Andy as a mentor, and trading him before the deadline for more value.
I just don't understand how it could work financially. Am I wrong that we don't have enough money to pay our draft picks right now with our cap situation? If they can restructure some deals and make things work then yeah, I'm all for it. It makes sense.
I've argued before it would be nice to wait for a starting QB to get injured on another team, then trade Dalton to them. I've argued that Dalton's value is really low right now, and if he started the first couple games and lit it up, then all of a sudden his value is high. So trading him before the deadline might be the best time to get maximum value.
Again, I just don't see how we can afford to pay our draft picks, and re-sign Mixon and AJ, and keep Dalton. Def. need some sort of wizardry there.. The financials are the only reason I have a hard time picturing this happening.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:05 PM)McC Wrote: I don't suppose Van Pelt will teach him much, being the OC for the Cleveland Browns.
So, to be a good NFL coach, one has to have been a star player in the league? This might come as a shock to Andy Reid, Bill Belichick and pretty much any successful coach in the league.
You're the one who brought up Andy's on the field issues as a means to say he can't coach a QB so I just figured I'd point out that our HC and QB coach have QB resumes that make Andy Dalton look like Dan Marino, that's all.
Personally, I think Dalton has a lot of the on and off the field qualities to make for an effective coach (much more effective than just cutting him) and that's why we shouldn't lament the idea of him being with Burrow for his first year. Regardless on how we feel about Dalton being here, he's only going to be here for a year so the next 15+ years of Burrow making this team his own are still ahead of us.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Synric - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:09 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Because a very good receiver is much more valuable and less risk than a RB. Same reason RB's did not come off the draft board and and 1 like Dobbins almost slid to round 3.
First the Bengals will need to make cap moves before they sign their rookies because they will be 3 mil over the cap. Secondly they have said multiple times they want to resign Mixon and the best way to do that is through an extension to make the contract more team friendly.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Fan_in_Kettering - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Spot on, we have zero risk in letting AD and Burrow compete in training camp. I just think too many deep down are concerned AD wins the competition because they hate AD...
The only time I’ll ever not like Andy Dalton is when he faces the Bengals with another team. He’s in stripes so as a fan if the Cincinnati Bengals I’ll be a fan of his until he wears another uniform; I felt the same about Carson Palmer. I already feel the same about Joe Burrow.
Now, to your point: The only possible way Andy Dalton beats Joe Burrow in training camp is if the Bengals use an old or an existing playbook Andy already knows. If Zac Taylor is planning to do this he needs fired like maybe yesterday! Seriously, I see a whole new playbook in place because the entire offense has been re-engined so to speak. This will put Andy Dalton and Joe Burrow on equal footing.
A bit of quarterback competition is a good thing as long as it falls short of becoming a controversy. Andy doesn’t go for that sort of thing so the Bengals are safe. Even so, would it be so terrible if Andy pushes Joe? It would make Joe better just like AJ McCarron pushed Andy hard in the 2015 training camp and preseason. Had McCarron not been so surprisingly good I’m not sure Dalton would have had the season he had in 2015.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:10 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You were the one said Dalton could not teach Burrow anything based on your perceived talent level of AD. But others can?
You are losing it in this discussion, Deep breaths before posting.
Right. You want to have a QB competition between the guy we know all too well and have abundant evidence on to prove he ain't the guy and the future of the franchise and I'm the one losing it. Okay, now say another goofy thing.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:10 PM)McC Wrote: Let me run another thought by you.
How about signing a veteran backup for five million or less? Crazy, way outside the box thinking, I know.
What parallel universe are we living in? This conversation is too crazy to even be having.
If we could actually move Dalton for anything and then bring in a system guy like Matt Moore or Sean Mannion I'd be all for it. I pointed this out when it seemed like Dalton had trade value during the end of the 2019 season and during the off-season. But until we can get something for Dalton there isn't much point in it.
Moore is a FA, so if we can trade Dalton for anything I'd look for him to get the call from ZT.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:15 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The only time I’ll ever not like Andy Dalton is when he faces the Bengals with another team. He’s in stripes so as a fan if the Cincinnati Bengals I’ll be a fan of his until he wears another uniform; I felt the same about Carson Palmer. I already feel the same about Joe Burrow.
I have to admit it was pretty sweet in 2012 when Palmer and the Raiders lost to us and beat the Steelers. That was pretty handy.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - fredtoast - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:10 PM)McC Wrote: What parallel universe are we living in? This conversation is too crazy to even be having.
You may not agree with the points being made, but they are reasonable arguments
-Lots of other NFL teams spend more on their QBs than we would on Dalton and Burrow.
-Lack of OTAs and minicamps may keep Burrow from being ready at start of season.
-Mike thinks he could get something of value for Dalton if another team loses its starting QB before the trade deadline.
-No great free agents left to spend Dalton's salary on.
-We don't have another competent back up QB on the roster.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:17 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If we could actually move Dalton for anything and then bring in a system guy like Matt Moore or Sean Mannion I'd be all for it. I pointed this out when it seemed like Dalton had trade value during the end of the 2019 season and during the off-season. But until we can get something for Dalton there isn't much point in it.
Moore is a FA, so if we can trade Dalton for anything I'd look for him to get the call from ZT.
We can move him. We can move him right out the door for 17.7 million. Problem solved.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:20 PM)McC Wrote: We can move him. We can move him right out the door for 17.7 million. Problem solved.
All I'm saying is that I'm on board with the whole Burrow being the golden calf and panacea for the disease that afflicts us...so how does moving Dalton out the door ASAP help him? It's all about helping Burrow. There is plenty of logic behind the notion that keeping Dalton on board (while hoping Dalton NEVER sees the field, mind you) will help Burrow and therefore help this franchise for the next 15+ years.
We paid Dalton to QB a hopeless 4-year losing streak of a team so now when the guy being in stripes could maaaaybe actually pay off in a huge way we want to kick his ass out? I just don't see how that helps Burrow and it's all about Burrow and I'm not even being snarky about that...it's all about Burrow and if people like Jordan Palmer and Andy Dalton can help him be good at football and put this team on the damn map what is so wrong with that?
Dalton is an overpaid coach in 2020, so be it.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Fan_in_Kettering - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:20 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I have to admit it was pretty sweet in 2012 when Palmer and the Raiders lost to us and beat the Steelers. That was pretty handy.
I was there. When Carson came back as a Raider he got a nice ovation — and deservedly so. However, the stadium absolutely exploded when Geno Atkins slammed Carson to the turf with extreme prejudice. It was the second loudest roar I have ever heard at Paul Brown Stadium over a sack. The loudest was when Geno pile-drove Tom Brady. That was epic.
Anyway, when Andy Dalton returns to Cincinnati with his new team I’m going to be the first fan on my feet when he enters the stadium. I’ll also be the first fan on my feet when he takes a sack.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:25 PM)Nately120 Wrote: All I'm saying is that I'm on board with the whole Burrow being the golden calf and panacea for the disease that afflicts us...so how does moving Dalton out the door ASAP help him? It's all about helping Burrow. There is plenty of logic behind the notion that keeping Dalton on board (while hoping Dalton NEVER sees the field, mind you) will help Burrow and therefore help this franchise for the next 15+ years.
We paid Dalton to QB a hopeless 4-year losing streak of a team so now when the guy being in stripes could maaaaybe actually pay off in a huge way we want to kick his ass out? I just don't see how that helps Burrow and it's all about Burrow and I'm not even being snarky about that...it's all about Burrow and if people like Jordan Palmer and Andy Dalton can help him be good at football and put this team on the damn map what is so wrong with that?
Dalton is an overpaid coach in 2020, so be it.
Or do a sane thing and pay another guy who knows he's a backup a fraction of that to be a glorified coach who won't be walking around knowing he used to be the man but no longer is.
Just how much of a saint do people expect Dalton to be?
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:29 PM)McC Wrote: Just how much of a saint do people expect Dalton to be?
Dalton took a team-friendly deal and got driven into the turf for his troubles....the guy doesn't have a malignant bone in his body. He's the only franchise QB Mike Brown has ever had who hasn't demanded a trade so I say we don't look that gift horse in the mouth.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Fan_in_Kettering - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:29 PM)McC Wrote: Just how much of a saint do people expect Dalton to be?
Andy’s kinda saintly!
My prediction is Andy will be moved after the season begins before the trade deadline. I know he’s expensive but let’s look at long term effects. We can cut him now and get nothing or we can do a deal in-season and get something. I’m not sure the Bengals should unload him so fast.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:36 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Andy’s kinda saintly!
My prediction is Andy will be moved after the season begins before the trade deadline. I know he’s expensive but let’s look at long term effects. We can cut him now and get nothing or we can do a deal in-season and get something. I’m not sure the Bengals should unload him so fast.
I'll admit I'm a bit sick of Andy's nice-guy routine, though he looked like a comically frustrated bad guy from a kid's cartoon while yelling at his incompetent o-linemen at times last year. You cretins, you're supposed to stop them from sacking me!!!! AARRGHHH!!!
I will say it will be interesting after a decade of nice-guy Dalton seeing how Burrow handles his frustrations. I don't WANT Burrow to have to meltdown, but if he ends up strangling Ross at some point I'd be entertained.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Fan_in_Kettering - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'll admit I'm a bit sick of Andy's nice-guy routine, though he looked like a comically frustrated bad guy from a kid's cartoon while yelling at his incompetent o-linemen at times last year. You cretins, you're supposed to stop them from sacking me!!!! AARRGHHH!!!
I will say it will be interesting after a decade of nice-guy Dalton seeing how Burrow handles his frustrations. I don't WANT Burrow to have to meltdown, but if he ends up strangling Ross at some point I'd be entertained.
I’m of mixed emotions here. On one hand I loved watching Tom Brady or Carson Palmer light up his offensive linemen after a sack but on the other hand I like it when the screaming happens off the field.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:36 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Andy’s kinda saintly!
My prediction is Andy will be moved after the season begins before the trade deadline. I know he’s expensive but let’s look at long term effects. We can cut him now and get nothing or we can do a deal in-season and get something. I’m not sure the Bengals should unload him so fast.
Why do people keep clinging to the myth that Dalton will be traded?
And how does a team go about setting up their roster to accommodate having a backup who is only there waiting for a trade to happen yet still have a decent backup in the event the hoped for trade does happen?