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+--- Thread: Why not keep Andy as a backup? (/Thread-Why-not-keep-Andy-as-a-backup)
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 12:28 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: As I said, I love Joe Burrow. But my experience tells me Dalton in a fair competition in camp, Dalton may beat him out.
If that happens, we have our starting QB making 17.7 million and our back up making around 9 million.
Why is that unrealistic when teams are paying 1 QB 30 million?
It’s unrealistic because Dalton is not going to beat out Burrow. It’s not even worth discussing.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Essex Johnson - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:20 PM)McC Wrote: We can move him. We can move him right out the door for 17.7 million. Problem solved.
So would you have a problem cutting him and bringing him back on a team friendly 1 year contract as a backup next year especially with the limited interaction and OTAs for Burrow ?
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:51 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So would you have a problem cutting him and bringing him back on a team friendly 1 year contract as a backup next year especially with the limited interaction and OTAs for Burrow ?
By next year, are you saying 2021?
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 12:44 PM)Nately120 Wrote: What do you expect Zac "4th String CFL QB" Taylor and Alex "16 TDs and 24 INTs for his career" Van Pelt to teach Burrow?
This is ridiculous. Some of the best coaches were terrible players. Jordan Palmer is the hottest QB guru in the game right now.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:47 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I’m of mixed emotions here. On one hand I loved watching Tom Brady or Carson Palmer light up his offensive linemen after a sack but on the other hand I like it when the screaming happens off the field.
It all depends on winning.
When you win:
Quiet QB is a silent leader, has icewater in his veins, doesn't get rattled, is confident.
Loud QB is a fiery leader, holds players accountable, rises to the occasion, is confident
When you lose:
Quiet QB doesn't care, has checked out, is only there for a paycheck, not a leader
Loud QB is emotionally immature, has lost control of the team and himself, wants out, not a leader
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:00 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Spot on, we have zero risk in letting AD and Burrow compete in training camp. I just think too many deep down are concerned AD wins the competition because they hate AD worse than those with Trump Derangement Syndrome hate Trump.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/I4Jmrcjnr8Zfq/giphy.gif)
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Essex Johnson - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:53 PM)McC Wrote: By next year, are you saying 2021?
well lets hope we play football in 2020.. and your answer would be:
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
Anyone that wants to keep a 17 million dollar backup QB is not allowed to say a single word about the OL when we’re unable to sign guys other teams cut that would be clear upgrades.
We can’t afford him. Period. /thread
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 02:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This is ridiculous. Some of the best coaches were terrible players. Jordan Palmer is the hottest QB guru in the game right now.
I'm aware of that, which is why I challenged his viewpoint that Andy Dalton's negative aspects as a QB would make him ineffective as a mentor/coach for Burrow. I was pointing out that his own argument didn't make sense seeing as cutting Dalton would lead the only guy who had any success at QB on the field out of the building leaving only QB busts to coach him.
I was using his argument against him without believing it myself...typical debate methodology.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - TheCincinnatiKid - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:29 PM)McC Wrote: Or do a sane thing and pay another guy who knows he's a backup a fraction of that to be a glorified coach who won't be walking around knowing he used to be the man but no longer is.
Just how much of a saint do people expect Dalton to be?
A backup with zero experience of the team or the team playbook? If you want a backup on the cheap, it's probably going to be a guy with pretty limited gametime too.
I get Dalton would be a pretty expensive backup to have, but how much help would bringing in a guy on the cheap, with no experience of us and limited experience of NFL gametime really be to Joe Burrow?
That said, it's obviously debatable as to the value Dalton would have as a mentor. Would be a completely new role to him and 17m in cap space for something which may not be a positive is a gamble.
Also to note, I feel like it's pretty clear he wants to play. He's still good enough and can start somewhere. I highly doubt he's the kind of guy who would stick around here and be an attitude problem. Whatever you think of him as a QB, the guy is a class act.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - fredtoast - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 02:01 PM)Nately120 Wrote: It all depends on winning.
When you win:
Quiet QB is a silent leader, has icewater in his veins, doesn't get rattled, is confident.
Loud QB is a fiery leader, holds players accountable, rises to the occasion, is confident
When you lose:
Quiet QB doesn't care, has checked out, is only there for a paycheck, not a leader
Loud QB is emotionally immature, has lost control of the team and himself, wants out, not a leader
I wish there was such a thing as "double rep"
Everyone says they want a QB chewing out his receivers, but who remembers when Carson and Chad got in a yelling match during a game and everyone was talking about "Dissension in the locker room".
The difference between "confident" and "cocky asshole" is how many games you win.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - fredtoast - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 02:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Anyone that wants to keep a 17 million dollar backup QB is not allowed to say a single word about the OL when we’re unable to sign guys other teams cut that would be clear upgrades.
We can’t afford him. Period. /thread
We can always brelease him if someone becomes available instead of making a decision now based on what might happen in a make believe world.
There are players cut who are good candidates to sign for depth, but very few starter quality players get released.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nately120 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 02:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I wish there was such a thing as "double rep"
Everyone says they want a QB chewing out his receivers, but who remembers when Carson and Chad got in a yelling match during a game and everyone was talking about "Dissension in the locker room".
It's also something that is really affected by fandom. Going into 2019 we were pumped about how quiet and confident the team was and once that went bust it was time to replace nice guy Andy with a cocky firebrand who already KNEW he was the best guy on the field and such a QB just so happened to be available to us at #1.
Likewise, we were understandably sick of and/or mad at Palmer and Marvin and all Dalton and ZT had to do was have a pulse before we declared that both of them were clearly 10 times the leader their predecessors were. The NFL is full of examples of quiet guys and loud guys being successful, but I can see why we look at our situation and if we are losing we declare that the opposite is just what we need to get things back on the right track.
Fandom is my favorite drug. Well, that and injecting poison dart frog venom into my testicles.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - fredtoast - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 01:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: It’s unrealistic because Dalton is not going to beat out Burrow. It’s not even worth discussing.
I would point out that the last two NFL MVPs were QBs but neither of them won the starting job to begin their rookie seasons, but I know what Nico's reply would be..............
"Can not even discuss possibility!!!"
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Bengalstripes9 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 02:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: We can’t afford him. Period. /thread
Which is what I keep coming back to. I haven't heard one legit argument on how we can possibly afford Dalton.
Yes, you guys are making good points about how it would be nice to keep him around. However, those arguments fail to acknowledge our cap situation.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Bengalfan4life27c - 04-26-2020
It's Andy or Cam who would cost 9 million. otherwise Burrow gets hurt we are toast. Finley or Dolgala neither are long term answers IMO
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 02:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm aware of that, which is why I challenged his viewpoint that Andy Dalton's negative aspects as a QB would make him ineffective as a mentor/coach for Burrow. I was pointing out that his own argument didn't make sense seeing as cutting Dalton would lead the only guy who had any success at QB on the field out of the building leaving only QB busts to coach him.
I was using his argument against him without believing it myself...typical debate methodology.
But Dalton would not be working on mechanics and the technical side of playing QB with Burrow, that’s not a backups job. This idea that Joe will need to be taught how to be a pro, or read defenses, make adjustments, etc is really weird to me. These are some of Burrow’s biggest strengths. He’s not some 21 year old raw physical freak that doesn’t really understand all the different aspects of playing QB. Burrow is good to go. He’s 23 already, is cerebral as hell, a crazy hard worker, the son of a coach, and will be surrounded by QB coaches in this team. He’ll be fine without the tutelage of Andy Dalton.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 03:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would point out that the last two NFL MVPs were QBs but neither of them won the starting job to begin their rookie seasons, but I know what Nico's reply would be..............
Mahomes and Jackson were not #1 picks coming off the best college season of all time. But hey, hell with context right? All situations are exactly the same!
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 03:06 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: Which is what I keep coming back to. I haven't heard one legit argument on how we can possibly afford Dalton.
Yes, you guys are making good points about how it would be nice to keep him around. However, those arguments fail to acknowledge our cap situation.
Their answer is too cut actual starters like Hart, or much more valuable players like Shawn Williams or Gio. Silly stuff. All of those guys will do more to help the team win than a backup QB.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 03:10 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: It's Andy or Cam who would cost 9 million. otherwise Burrow gets hurt we are toast. Finley or Dolgala neither are long term answers IMO
Andy costs almost twice that.