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+--- Thread: Why not keep Andy as a backup? (/Thread-Why-not-keep-Andy-as-a-backup)
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Bengalstripes9 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 04:57 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Fair enough, who is your great depth at QB if Dalton is gone? Do you agree the QB position is the most important?
Bruce Gradkowski worked quite well when Dalton came in. He didnt cost very much. In a diluted QB market there’s gotta be a cheap veteran that slipped through the cracks. I like that guy that played for Mn before the Cousins trade. Went to Denver after that. I forget his name. Restructuring Daltons deal would be a nice option too, if possible.
(04-26-2020, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree Green WAS a baller. We have no idea what he can do now or if he will even be able to stay on the field. It would be crazy to give him a big extension.
BTW Bengals went 5-4 with Green in 2018, but his injury was not the only reason Bengals tanked second half of the season. Bengals were 5-5 before Dalton got injured.
What was Dalton’s record last year without Green? Im not saying we would have made the playoffs with Green, but we likely dont get the 1st overall pick.
I didnt say a big extension. 3 years would be nice. You act like this injury will cause him to forget how to play. He’s had ample time to heal. I say test him out in training camp and sign him before the season or after the season starts.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - bfine32 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:28 PM)McC Wrote: Not the same. Eli went into the season as the starter. And the Giants knew they were going to be crap. Had they just finished spending 150 mil in FA?
Find a comparable situation, not one that is not even close.
Oh and, how many SBs did Andy win?
Moving the goal post is fun isn't it?
NYG drafted Jones #6 with the intention of him being their future QB and held on to Eli and his $23 Mil cap. I think you're just dismissing this comparison because you took the time to put NO ONE in all caps and don't want it to go to waste.
How do you know the Bengals aren't planning to start 2020 with Andy under center while Burrow gets up to speed because of the truncated Preseason? If Mikey says Dalton is our starter in 2020 the would it be comparable?
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Bengalstripes9 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Moving the goal post is fun isn't it?
NYG drafted Jones #6 with the intention of him being their future QB and held on to Eli and his $23 Mil cap. I think you're just dismissing this comparison because you took the time to put NO ONE in all caps and don't want it to go to waste.
How do you know the Bengals aren't planning to start 2020 with Andy under center while Burrow gets up to speed because of the truncated Preseason? If Mikey says Dalton is our starter in 2020 the would it be comparable?
New York had the cap space to make that happen. We don’t.
It’s really that simple. Unless you want to gut the team of depth. Like I said before, maybe they can work some magic, restructure his deal, etc. it just doesn’t seem likely.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Synric - 04-26-2020
I can see both sides of the arguement.
Dalton would make an excellent backup behind Burrow to help him transition from college to the NFL. He understands the AFC North as well as anyone in football.
But I can also see how 17.7mil in cap space could be better used especially when we see Post-June 1st cuts and training camp casualties. Larry Warford could be a cap casualty the Saints drafted McCoy last year and was a very good center, they resigned Andrus Peat, and traded up to draft Cesar Ruiz in the first round. Warford could be on his way out.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - bfine32 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:39 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: New York had the cap space to make that happen. We don’t.
It’s really that simple. Unless you want to gut the team of depth. Like I said before, maybe they can work some magic, restructure his deal, etc. it just doesn’t seem likely.
I guarantee you this:
If we keep Andy and his current contract we will have 53 players on the gameday roster and our depth at the most important spot on the team will be great.
Of course some may think the 6th WR, 11th Olineman. 4th TE, or 5th Safety is more important, but I think nothing is more important then setting up Joe for success
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - fredtoast - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:28 PM)McC Wrote: Find a comparable situation, not one that is not even close.
Jets paid Josh McCowan $10 million to back up Sam Darnold in 2018.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 03:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Not allowed. What a foolish statement!!!
Find us that great OL, then cut him. But until you have that great OL ready to sign, your statement is foolish.
No, paying a backup QB 17 million is foolish.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Bengalstripes9 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jets paid Josh McCowan $10 million to back up Sam Darnold in 2018.
I’d be happy with paying Dalton 10 mil. If they could make that happen that'd be ideal.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 03:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Andy Reid or John Harbaugh > ZT
And water is wet.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - fredtoast - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:35 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: I didnt say a big extension. 3 years would be nice.
He is making $18 million this year. He would not take any long term deal that does not give him more guaranteed money than that.
(04-26-2020, 05:35 PM)Bengalstripes18 Wrote: You act like this injury will cause him to forget how to play.
No I am not. But you are acting like WRs never decline after turning 32 or having injuries that cause them to miss almost two complete seasons.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 04:00 PM)bfine32 Wrote: You haven't? Many have been presented:
Cut Hart and Williams
Hell, cutting some TE named Cethan Carter and Ales Redmond gets us there
Sign AJ to a long term and spread out the cap
Make a deal with Andy to extend his contract and spread out his Cap and give him all his loot with the agreement we'll shop him next year when the market is better
Hell cutting Alex Erikson save us $2 Mil
All of these ideas by us folks who don't get paid to find ways to message the cap
The only counter we're left with is "we can't afford him" and it's been proven wrong
We can’t afford him without cutting players that are more valuable. That better?
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:43 PM)bfine32 Wrote: I guarantee you this:
If we keep Andy and his current contract we will have 53 players on the gameday roster and our depth at the most important spot on the team will be great.
Of course some may think the 6th WR, 11th Olineman. 4th TE, or 5th Safety is more important, but I think nothing is more important then setting up Joe for success
11th OLineman?? You’re proposing we cut our starting RT! For. A. Backup. QB.
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jets paid Josh McCowan $10 million to back up Sam Darnold in 2018.
So, now 18 is the same as 10? We are now officially in bizarro world.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Bengalstripes9 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He is making $18 million this year. He would not take any long term deal that does not give him more guaranteed money than that.
No I am not. But you are acting like WRs never decline after turning 32 or having injuries that cause them to miss almost two complete seasons.
Instead of quoting my entire response, you picked specific points to try to weaken my argument. Thats fine. I think he’s had ample time to recover. I think he can and will come back from his injuries. I think he’s a valuable player with a team first attitude and great fire. I think he’s very talented. I think he’s got at least 3 pro bowl level years left, especially if his work load is decreased by rotating receivers in and out. We’ll see who’s right in the end.
Im not going to get in a big argument about Green. We’ll have to agree to disagree. Talk is worthless. Yeah we can make predictions, back up our predictions, etc. but its all just talk.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - bfine32 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: He is making $18 million this year. He would not take any long term deal that does not give him more guaranteed money than that.
Unless we signed him to a deal that included a $20 MIL signing bonus and no guaranteed base.
AJ, we're going to give you a 4 year contract that includes a $20 MIL signing bonus and a contract of $50 Mil in base. You get $7 MIL in 2020, $13 MIL in 2021, $15 MIL in 2022, and $15 MIL in 2023, but only your 2020 contract is guarenteed.
As simple as that you've dropped AJ's cap his $6 MIL this year and put $2 MIL more in AJ's pocket.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - Nicomo Cosca - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Jets paid Josh McCowan $10 million to back up Sam Darnold in 2018.
In what world is 10 million close to 17.7? You guys can’t find an example of a team paying their backup QB that much, because no one would. Not Eli getting benched, an actual backup that was #2 on the depth chart going into the season.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 05:35 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Moving the goal post is fun isn't it?
NYG drafted Jones #6 with the intention of him being their future QB and held on to Eli and his $23 Mil cap. I think you're just dismissing this comparison because you took the time to put NO ONE in all caps and don't want it to go to waste.
How do you know the Bengals aren't planning to start 2020 with Andy under center while Burrow gets up to speed because of the truncated Preseason? If Mikey says Dalton is our starter in 2020 the would it be comparable?
I guess it's roughly the same as comparing apples to oranges. See, I can play word games too.
Yes, if Mike Brown says Andy is the starter, and if he is prepared to completely lose his fan base in the process, then yes, that would be comparable. Refresh my memory on the last time Mike Brown announced who would be his starters.
I get it. You've buried your boots in this bad idea of yours and refuse to come off it and will say anything to try to make it seem to make the least bit of sense. I understand.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - bfine32 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 06:04 PM)McC Wrote: So, now 18 is the same as 10? We are now officially in bizarro world.
Of course you didn't same same, you said similar; and yes in a $200ish MIL cap those numbers are similar. But I see you have your heels dug in, I suspect no example will be good enough.
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - bfine32 - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 06:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: In what world is 10 million close to 17.7? You guys can’t find an example of a team paying their backup QB that much, because no one would. Not Eli getting benched, an actual backup that was #2 on the depth chart going into the season.
Ina $200 MIL cap world. One is 5% of the cap and one is 8% of the cap. Is that close?
RE: Why not keep Andy as a backup? - McC - 04-26-2020
(04-26-2020, 06:08 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Of course you didn't same same, you said similar; and yes in a $200ish MIL cap those numbers are similar. But I see you have your heels dug in, I suspect no example will be good enough.
More word games. 8 million dollars is nothing? Yep Bizarro world.