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+---- Thread: Federal employees COLA slashed (/Thread-Federal-employees-COLA-slashed)
Federal employees COLA slashed - Yojimbo - 02-13-2020
What a colossal douche. Says he has to cut COLA increase from 2.5% to 1% due to economic conditions. Then turns around the next day and claims greatest economy of all time. I’m sure gas prices, food cost, housing cost and education costs will be similarly reduced to an only 1% combined increase...
““Even more absurdly, Trump is justifying ordering the cut on the grounds that the country is in the midst of a ‘national emergency or serious economic conditions affecting the general welfare,’ which the White House says authorizes the president to ‘implement alternative plans for pay adjustments,'” Hannon added. “So which is it? The best economy in the history of economies or a national economic emergency? Either way, somebody’s lying.””
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/trump-quietly-slashes-pay-raise-for-federal-workers/
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - GMDino - 02-13-2020
(02-13-2020, 01:41 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: What a colossal douche. Says he has to cut COLA increase from 2.5% to 1% due to economic conditions. Then turns around the next day and claims greatest economy of all time. I’m sure gas prices, food cost, housing cost and education costs will be similarly reduced to an only 1% combined increase...
““Even more absurdly, Trump is justifying ordering the cut on the grounds that the country is in the midst of a ‘national emergency or serious economic conditions affecting the general welfare,’ which the White House says authorizes the president to ‘implement alternative plans for pay adjustments,'” Hannon added. “So which is it? The best economy in the history of economies or a national economic emergency? Either way, somebody’s lying.””
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/trump-quietly-slashes-pay-raise-for-federal-workers/
I mentioned this over in the deficit thread but we all know DJT hates actually paying anyone but himself (and maybe his kids) so it's no surprise there. Nor is it a surprise that he's talking out both his mouth and his read about the economy.
He's a loser.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - SunsetBengal - 02-13-2020
I don't see what the uproar is about. Those same Federal employees that make their salary off of our taxes, are more than welcome to go get jobs in the private sector. In the private sector, performance merits raises in pay more than things like "achieving another year of seniority".
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - michaelsean - 02-13-2020
I'd be curious what the actual cost of living increase is. I assumed COLA was based on some formula. Gas seems like it's held pretty steady. Don't know about food and housing.. Education should be a non-factor.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - GMDino - 02-13-2020
(02-13-2020, 02:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't see what the uproar is about. Those same Federal employees that make their salary off of our taxes, are more than welcome to go get jobs in the private sector. In the private sector, performance merits raises in pay more than things like "achieving another year of seniority".
Yeah! What's the big deal about taking a job and being told how you'd be paid and then having your boss renege?
Just go get a new job! And move!
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - CKwi88 - 02-13-2020
I'll get my 3.5% as a state employee, to heck with the feds.
But seriously, what a d-bag. But that was a known known.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - BmorePat87 - 02-13-2020
![[Image: I7JoQZt.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/I7JoQZt.jpg)
Tax cuts for the rich and a wall that blows down >>>>>>> COLA, medicare, and social security
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - CJD - 02-13-2020
The economy is doing so well he's cutting federal employees' annual salary increases.
What a guy. What an economy.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - Belsnickel - 02-13-2020
(02-13-2020, 02:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't see what the uproar is about. Those same Federal employees that make their salary off of our taxes, are more than welcome to go get jobs in the private sector. In the private sector, performance merits raises in pay more than things like "achieving another year of seniority".
So, you don't see any issue with outright lying to the American people. Gotcha. Argue about COLA all you want, but the most blatant thing about this is the "greatest economy ever" requires salary cuts for federal employees because of the economy. So either he's lying about the economy, or lying about the reason for the cuts. Though of course it could be both and the economy isn't as great as he claims and the tax cuts are causing a significant rise in deficits.
(02-13-2020, 03:21 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I'll get my 3.5% as a state employee, to heck with the feds.
But seriously, what a d-bag. But that was a known known.
Pfft. We only see pay adjustments during important election years.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - CKwi88 - 02-13-2020
(02-13-2020, 06:07 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: Pfft. We only see pay adjustments during important election years.
I'm in CT. They had us frozen for 5 years, they'll unfreeze us for 2 or three and then itll be back to a decade of frozen salaries.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - Nately120 - 02-13-2020
(02-13-2020, 02:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't see what the uproar is about. Those same Federal employees that make their salary off of our taxes, are more than welcome to go get jobs in the private sector. In the private sector, performance merits raises in pay more than things like "achieving another year of seniority".
It's true. I made a lot more money before I worked in a capacity that involved the defense of this country.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - treee - 02-13-2020
Now all that is left is for him to fix the problem he created but leaving it in an overall worse condition, while claiming a success: "Trump style management"
All style and no substance. Par for the course for this administration. He's full of gilded drivel.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - Belsnickel - 02-13-2020
(02-13-2020, 06:13 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: I'm in CT. They had us frozen for 5 years, they'll unfreeze us for 2 or three and then itll be back to a decade of frozen salaries.
Yeah, we saw over a decade without any pay increases. They just started giving them to us again, but they are more often bonuses rather than salary increases.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - fredtoast - 02-14-2020
(02-13-2020, 02:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't see what the uproar is about. Those same Federal employees that make their salary off of our taxes, are more than welcome to go get jobs in the private sector. In the private sector, performance merits raises in pay more than things like "achieving another year of seniority".
Personally I would prefer that we keep some competent people in government.
I know Trump has convinced the rubes that the government is the problem, but I have actually read some history books so I know that before we had government regulation the "private sector" poisoned our air and water, destroyed the environment (strip mining, ect), sold poison as medicine, made employees work in deadly conditions, sold tainted food, controlled prices (monopolies), manipulated investment markets, and suppressed wages to exploit minorities and other disadvantaged groups.
You want to take this to the state level and cut the wages of schoolteachers, police and firemen to the point that they all leave for private sector jobs also? That way we could come up with even MORE tax breaks for corporations. They have only been raking up historic profits for almost a decade now. I am sure they need our money more than evil, lazy government employee's, right?
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - oncemoreuntothejimbreech - 02-14-2020
(02-13-2020, 02:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't see what the uproar is about. Those same Federal employees that make their salary off of our taxes, are more than welcome to go get jobs in the private sector. In the private sector, performance merits raises in pay more than things like "achieving another year of seniority".
Also known as Republican porn. We know this is true because there isn't a single person in the private sector who is under paid. Since 1978 CEO pay has increased over 900% while employee wages have increased less than 12%. That's because CEO's performance is that much better than everyone in the lower and middle classes to earn such merit increases. Merit increases are the reason why there is no such thing as a wage gap in America. It's not like capitalism dictates that wage suppression increases profit margins which is good for shareholders and not employees. That's why American autoworkers are the highest paid autoworkers in the world . . . because they work so hard. That's why American manufacturing jobs aren't being outsourced overseas; because American worker's performance merits more wages and consumers recognize their performance. Hardly a week goes by that I don't see one of the bosses giving a co-worker a merit based pay raise. It's happened so often I can count it on zero fingers.
On the flip side of that, federal employees typically make less in salary than their civilian sector counter parts, if there is a civilian sector counter part. Like a VA doctor, for example. A VA doctor is usually going to be paid less salary than civilian doctor. But, a VA doctor may feel like taking care of our nation's veterans is important work so they may be willing to work for less salary. Or they may feel the job offers more stability than the civilian sector. Or they may value a government pension for a life time of service versus the civilian model of no pension (because capitalism just loves rewarding worker's decades of performance with pensions.) Also, in the federal pay system employees typically can't tell their boss how great they are and demand a merit based raise. And you would begrudge them their normal raise.
But, you've missed the point entirely as to why Trump trimmed the COLA. As others have pointed out, we can't have the greatest economy ever and an economic crisis simultaneously.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - Dill - 02-14-2020
(02-13-2020, 02:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't see what the uproar is about. Those same Federal employees that make their salary off of our taxes, are more than welcome to go get jobs in the private sector. In the private sector, performance merits raises in pay more than things like "achieving another year of seniority".
We could save A LOT on taxes if we just fired ALL the Federal employees. The deficit would drop dramatically.
Start with Congress, then Cabinet level positions and staff, then go to the FBI, Coast Guard and Military.
We've got 28,000 soldiers in S Korea doing what? Then there is a whole carrier group in the Far East and two in the Persian Gulf. That's another 150,000 who aren't making anything for the economy. LOL talk about achieving seniority just by being there: I know a command sergeant major who was deployed 9 times to Iraq and A-stan. Some of these guys get medals for "good conduct" and just being where there are. Let's cut the overseas vacations on our dime and let these guys find out how easy it is to provide their own health care in the civilian economy. If we need embassies and troops overseas, let private corporations take care of it WITHOUT our tax dollars. Somehow. If these kinds of jobs don't create profit, then why is anyone doing them?
Also, we wouldn't need all this Social Security and Medicare if our taxes went down 90%.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - SunsetBengal - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 04:57 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Also known as Republican porn. We know this is true because there isn't a single person in the private sector who is under paid. Since 1978 CEO pay has increased over 900% while employee wages have increased less than 12%.
I'm gonna call BS on those stats. Using *adjusted for inflation* numbers to claim that average, non-supervisory workers made 48K in 1978 is a load of crap, and I'm pretty sure that you know that.
The truth is, the average wage in 1978 was $6.10/hr. (Dec 1978) Today, the average wage is $23.87/hr. (Jan 2020) The minimum wage in 1978 was $2.65/hr, or about 43% of the median. Today, the Federal minimum wage is $7.25, or about 30% of the median. So, yes the minimum wage is due for a bump.
http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?data_set_group_id=773&count=all
Now, the average CEO wages in 1978 was about $1.65M, and today the average is above $12.4M.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/17/ceo-pay-ratio-average-worker-afl-cio
So, while the CEOs are outpacing the working class, there is no need to exaggerate the statistics by boosting the 1978 workers' numbers by adjusting them for inflation. In 1978 the average CEO made 127X the average worker's salary, today it's abour 248X the worker's salary.
In conclusion, yes something needs to lever the scale to the labor side. Just not in as dramatic fashion that some are arguing, by using skewed data to distort the picture.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - Belsnickel - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 07:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm gonna call BS on those stats. Using *adjusted for inflation* numbers to claim that average, non-supervisory workers made 48K in 1978 is a load of crap, and I'm pretty sure that you know that.
The truth is, the average wage in 1978 was $6.10/hr. (Dec 1978) Today, the average wage is $23.87/hr. (Jan 2020) The minimum wage in 1978 was $2.65/hr, or about 43% of the median. Today, the Federal minimum wage is $7.25, or about 30% of the median. So, yes the minimum wage is due for a bump.
http://www.data360.org/dsg.aspx?data_set_group_id=773&count=all
Now, the average CEO wages in 1978 was about $1.65M, and today the average is above $12.4M.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/17/ceo-pay-ratio-average-worker-afl-cio
So, while the CEOs are outpacing the working class, there is no need to exaggerate the statistics by boosting the 1978 workers' numbers by adjusting them for inflation. In 1978 the average CEO made 127X the average worker's salary, today it's abour 248X the worker's salary.
In conclusion, yes something needs to lever the scale to the labor side. Just not in as dramatic fashion that some are arguing, by using skewed data to distort the picture.
I am uncertain how taking inflation into consideration is an exaggeration of the statistics. It's actually disingenuous to not adjust for inflation when looking at these things. It provides a more accurate assessment for comparison. Trying to compare 1978 dollars to 2018 dollars, or so, doesn't tell the whole picture.
That's like analysis 101 when it comes to these things.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - Benton - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 07:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: In 1978 the average CEO made 127X the average worker's salary, today it's abour 248X the worker's salary.
Which is why our economy is not really recovering, and hasn't been since the 80s when people bought into 'trickle down economics'.
CEO pay increasing 900% (or a rate of 90 times faster than employee pay) really doesn't do much to help the economy. It's still one person, so the goods he buys may be of a higher price and he may buy negligibly more, but that's not having as big of an impact as more people being able to buy new stuff, hiring services instead of doing it themselves and looking for ways to invest their income.
RE: Federal employees COLA slashed - SunsetBengal - 02-14-2020
(02-14-2020, 08:16 PM)Belsnickel Wrote: I am uncertain how taking inflation into consideration is an exaggeration of the statistics. It's actually disingenuous to not adjust for inflation when looking at these things. It provides a more accurate assessment for comparison. Trying to compare 1978 dollars to 2018 dollars, or so, doesn't tell the whole picture.
That's like analysis 101 when it comes to these things.
I'm not sure that I agree. If you're going to adjust the worker's salary for inflation (I think the factor used is something like 3.92), then you must adjust the CEOs pay by the same factor.
When you do that, it actually softens the difference between the two, as CEOs pay in "adjusted for inflation" dollars would have been closer to $6.5M, rather than the $1.65M they actually earned in 1978. And if you compare the "adjusted" number of ~$6.5M to today's $12.4M, that's not nearly as dramatic of an increase.
Yes, the disparity between CEOs and workers is great, but not as exponential as some are making it out. Does something need to be done to bring up the workers? Absolutely. I'm just saying compare apples to apples when making the case.
We are not as different, as one would think at first glance. You work in policy, coming from an accounting background. You're used to dealing with exact amounts and absolute values. Just as I work in Surveying, we deal in exact calculations and precise, exact boundary measurements. When someone says that "you must consider inflation", I think to myself "how does having 5 acres of land in 1978 equate to having nearly 20 acres of land, today?". Sure, the same piece of ground may be worth nearly 4X what it did in 1978, but he still only owns what he owns. Value is relative to time that it is established, not retroactively. (yes, I do understand the concept of inflation)
My point is, I do agree that there is a wage disparity, and that something needs to be done. I just don't feel it fair to use inflation values to make that point, as no one had ever even heard much about inflation, until around that time. I was alive and aware, heck I remember the "fuel crisis" of a few years prior.